Intro: Welcome to the Teacher Interview Podcast. I’m your host, Wes Kriesel. I work as Director of Innovation and Instructional Support in Fullerton School District, and every week we sit down and get to know a teacher better. My goal is to learn what drives and guides teachers, especially when venturing into that risky territory of trying something new. Join me. Today on the Teacher Interview Podcast, we spend time with Debbie Kojima, who teaches at Acacia Elementary School in Fullerton.

Wes Kriesel: All right. Well, welcome, Debbie.

Debbie Kojima: Hello.

Wes Kriesel: I’m so glad you’re here.

Debbie Kojima: Thank you.

Wes Kriesel: So, you are probably one of my favorite teachers to visit.

Debbie Kojima: Aw.

Wes Kriesel: I don’t know if I’ve told you that before.

Debbie Kojima: Wow.

Wes Kriesel: I probably haven’t, and I probably should have.

Debbie Kojima: That’s really nice. Thank you.

Wes Kriesel: I probably should have. So, I love coming into your classroom and seeing what’s going on. Students always seem so scholarly and engaged and just attentive and laser-focused, if you will.

Debbie Kojima: Thank you.

Wes Kriesel: So, I’m really excited to have you here. But first, we’re just going to start with kind of like, what can you tell us about how you got into teaching? What was that like for you?

Debbie Kojima: Hmm. How I got into teaching. I think, just growing up, I always loved kids and I always loved playing with them and babysitting them. So, I’ve always felt like it was a calling. So, I just knew, and I went to college and I was a liberal studies major and…

Wes Kriesel: Go back. Did you do paid babysitting? Was that like that was a gig?

Debbie Kojima: I did. Yes, of course.

Wes Kriesel: That’s good.

Debbie Kojima: Neighbors and family friends and stuff.

Wes Kriesel: I did that a few times. I wasn’t asked back. So, you obviously had more luck.

Debbie Kojima: Well, I did enjoy it.

Wes Kriesel: That’s good.

Debbie Kojima: So, yeah. So, I always felt like I knew then I wanted to work with kids and I just knew. It was either that or nursing, and I went with teaching.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. So, did you pick a college based on something to do with teaching or what was that like?

Debbie Kojima: Well, I went through Cal State Fullerton. It was local and they had a great credential program. So yeah, I’m a Cal State Fullerton alumni.

Wes Kriesel: Awesome. So, when you got out of that, tell me about finding your first teaching job.

Debbie Kojima: Well, you know, I was lucky enough to, I student-taught at Orangethorpe Elementary with Stacy Hollenbeck.

Wes Kriesel: Really?

Debbie Kojima: Yes. She just retired, one of my favorite people in the whole world. Anyways, that was my first assignment and it was in sixth grade and I was terrified, but it was an amazing experience. And it just so happens that next year, it was in the spring, and that next year they needed another class and I got hired at Orangethorpe. So, that’s where I started, at Orangethorpe. I was at Orangethorpe for 13 years.

Wes Kriesel: Wow.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah, yeah.

Wes Kriesel: That’s awesome.

Debbie Kojima: Mm-hmm.

Wes Kriesel: That’s really exciting.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Okay, then tell me, well, first, before we go on to where you went after that, any first-year lessons, like things that you remember learning maybe the hard way or things that were frustrating the first year that came later, like tips? Let’s say there’s a first-year teacher listening to this in our district. What was that lesson for you?

Debbie Kojima: I think my first-year lessons, I had such a strong connection to my master teacher, so just finding someone that you can go to is huge and just kind of finding someone to seek support, ask questions, because it’s so hard in the beginning that you don’t learn. You don’t learn in student-teaching. So, just find someone that you can go to that can kind of take you under their wing, was huge for me.

Wes Kriesel: That’s huge, yeah.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah, and just being gracious on yourself, knowing you’re not going to know everything and learn from your mistakes and, yeah, do your best.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, being gracious to yourself. That’s hard lesson to learn because, I mean, we usually get better because we’re noticing mistakes and then trying to fix them. Yeah, do you remember anything from your first year about something that you realized it was going to take some time and you gave grace to yourself? I mean, I could just say upfront, mine was classroom management. I was like, “This is going to be year two,” and then in year two I’m like, “This is going to be year three,” and by year three, I was a very different teacher.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: But, for you, what were those learning points?

Debbie Kojima: I think in six the content was so hard and, like I said, luckily, I had the support from my whole team, was great, so just being gracious with learning the content and trying to jump in that way. Management, of course, for sure, was an issue.

Wes Kriesel: Glad I’m not alone.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. No, definitely, especially in sixth grade. But, you learn from your mistakes and, yeah, reflect.

Wes Kriesel: Awesome.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Awesome. Cool. So, after 13 years at Orangethorpe—which, that’s amazing. I mean, that’s I think to be commended.

Debbie Kojima: Thank you.

Wes Kriesel: That’s an impact on a school. That’s stability for the principal and colleagues. So, tell me about what happened next? Where’d you go? Why or what was that like?

Debbie Kojima: Well, I just felt like I was ready for a change, and so I ended up at Acacia Elementary where I am now, and it’s been such a blessing, in a different way.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Yeah.

Debbie Kojima: So, yeah, definitely a different learning experience. So, I taught at Orangethorpe in fifth and sixth as well and I started at Acacia teaching fifth, and then I moved to fifth grade GATE, and now I’m teaching sixth grade GATE. So, that’s been definitely a new experience. So, I’ve been there, I’ve been teaching GATE for the last six years, I think.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah. So, tell me just in that, so did you do GATE at Orangethorpe?

Debbie Kojima: No. Well, I did have a GATE cluster. They had clusters. So, I did that a few years, yes.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. So, tell me just tips for somebody starting with a GATE class. What are some things you noticed early on that were helpful reminders or practices?

I think I was really nervous. Luckily, I felt confident in the curriculum and I was older. But, what I realized, because I was really nervous, was they’re just kids, and although they’re extremely bright and gifted in their own way they still, you know, they’re kids. So, it wasn’t…

Wes Kriesel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. I mean, I taught advanced placement in a secondary setting and it can be intimidating.

Debbie Kojima: Yes. You’re like, “These students are…” I mean, I have a college degree in English, but sometimes you do feel—and there’s something about youth where they aren’t necessarily trying to filter their opinions. They’re like, “I think this,” and they can be strong-willed. And so, that can be intimidating when you’re teaching something and you’re learning.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Give me something that you noticed in the GATE classroom that was kind of standard or practiced that you wish you had known or applied to the traditional classroom setting because that’s a lot of times what I hear, like we kind of draw these lines and like GATE is different, but then I also hear, “No, the things that we do for GATE students, how beneficial would it be in any classroom?” So, is there something that’s your favorite, kind of, and this does well with any group of students?

Debbie Kojima: Well, I think prior to—at Orangethorpe, it was the state standards, and the Common Core standards brought this whole new level of thinking and learning and writing. And so, I don’t necessarily—when I was transitioning into GATE, the Common Core standards were also kind of this shift. So, I think that level of learning and multiple ways to learn and communicate your learning which the Common Core standards have brought has been amazing, and I think that was possibly before with GATE classes. I’m not sure, but the transition for me from CSTs to the Common Core standards really brought kind of just this greater depth and rigor within my teaching, for sure.

Wes Kriesel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That’s interesting.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: So, was there like strategy or something that happened in that second phase that you wish you had back in the CST days?

Debbie Kojima: Well, when I think about just the ways of writing through communication, there’s a lot more writing. Our school currently uses Writers’ and Readers’ Workshop and that’s teaching strategies to the reader or the writer versus the lesson per se, and I think 15 years ago I looked for the best lesson where today it’s about the reader and the writer. So, I think it’s just a different shift yes.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, these are my words, but you can say yes or no. So, maybe more metacognition?

Debbie Kojima: Definitely.

Wes Kriesel: Like, how does a writer think versus do X activity or whatever?

Debbie Kojima: Yes. Yes, definitely.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I think those are powerful shifts and, yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing that.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: So, we interviewed some people and we asked them three questions. One was like one word, if they had to sum Debbie up in one word, what would it be, and one was share one moment or a story about you where you’re being you, and the third was like bonus, like tell us anything about Debbie. So, I just want to…

Debbie Kojima: Oh, gosh.

Wes Kriesel: Don’t worry. It’s a family podcast. So, there is a quote from your principal, Liz Leon, and this is in the stories section, “share a moment.” So, I wanted to share it because I think it ties into what we were just talking about. And so, she talks about a debate that you were doing she says recently. Well, first, she said watching you teach anything is a significant experience, a meaningful experience, but she talked about recently you lead your class in a debate and then she talked about kind of these five pieces that were in the debate. So, she talked about multiple perspectives, collaboration, inquiry, research, and then she says best practices and I’m not sure what that means. But, do you remember the debate?

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Can you tell me and tell our readers—our readers. Tell our listeners. You got me on the Writers’ and Readers’ and Workshop. Tell our listeners, what does the debate look like and what do your students do?

Debbie Kojima: So, my students were split up into four theories. So, the title was How the Mastodon Became Extinct, and I separated them into four groups and they were introduced to four different theories of how the mastodon became extinct, and then they broke up, they did some research based on just the basics of the four theories, and then they had to delegate and kind of work as a team to, you know, I told the kids that, “You’re presenting, so you’re summarizing what your debate is and you have to take into mind counterclaims, like what people are going to say.” And there was a questions section, so the kids were able to ask each other questions about their theory to kind of counter-argue and summarize. So, it’s a really good kind of hands-on of the four C’s, just being able to collaborate and communicate and think on the spot and debate. So yeah, that’s pretty much what they did. So, it took place over probably two weeks where they met and then they met with their team and then they split up the work and they collaborated through Google or what have you, they did their research on their own, and eventually it led us to the debate.

Wes Kriesel: And this debate happens on one day?

Debbie Kojima: Yes.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. So, tell me how set that up. How do students feel going into it? What are you looking for on that day or is it like hands off on the day, whatever happens, happens? Because I’m sure you have expectations of like if it goes well, it looks like this.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: So, talk me through that day. What are you hoping to see?

Debbie Kojima: Well, I’m just hoping that they’re—it’s about the experience, definitely, and I don’t think they understand the experience until they actually go through the debate. There’s a whole structure. So, they start with a summary, like I said, of their debate, and all four present their summary and they have a certain time frame. And then, they have a counterclaim section and they have a certain time frame and they each take turns. And then, at that point, I give them about 10 minutes to meet as a group and develop questions. They might have developed questions from before, but based on what they heard…

Wes Kriesel: Right. So, if there’s anything surprising, they’re like, “We didn’t expect that.”

Debbie Kojima: Yes. Yes, exactly. So, they meet for 10 minutes, kind of come up with questions, then we come back and they’re able to question one another for a certain amount of time. And at the end, they conclude, and I do give points for the different sections, citing evidence and supporting your thinking. And yeah, and there is a winner, but there’s not a prize. I told them it’s about the ride and the experience. And so, they love it. Yeah, it’s a great exercise and they love it.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool. So, this is happening, we’re recording in November, right?

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: And so, this is fairly early in the year. Are there things you see in the debate where there’s room for growth that you see change over the course of the year or is this debate kind of like, they get up to that place where you want them to be and then it’s on to the next thing? Like, are there multiple debates during the year or things like that?

Debbie Kojima: Oh, yeah. No. Yeah. No, definitely. We will definitely be participating in another debate, and I was just talking about this at a PLC with my team and we were talking about nonfiction text and how debates are such an authentic use of kids, like reading it for a purpose. And so, yeah, it’s definitely something we are going to revisit.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool. That’s cool. If it goes well, what do you hear from students? Like overhearing comments, what’s your sense of like, “Okay, that was a good experience for them?”

Debbie Kojima: We always kind of after the debate, before I even—I usually don’t tell the winner until the next week.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, really?

Debbie Kojima: No. Yeah. But, we always, at the end, we kind of get together and reflect what went well, what are some things that we could do next time. And so, that’s kind of a process. And just hearing the kids, I mean, they honestly love it, and I’ve heard a lot of parents kind of just comment on their excitement and stuff.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool. I was wondering about the reflective process because it’s like two weeks and they’re building towards this one day, and I was like, “Gosh, I wonder what they say about it.” So, that’s interesting.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. They ask for other, “Are we going to do another one soon?” Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: That’s always good.

Debbie Kojima: Yes. Yes, for sure.

Wes Kriesel: Unless it’s a pizza party.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Okay, so thanks for commenting on that.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. So, we’re going to go to another story. This is from colleague Stephanie Given.

Debbie Kojima: Oh.

Wes Kriesel: Okay, so Stephanie, so it’s funny, she used the word “reaches” twice, okay? So, I’m going to read you both of those and they’re not necessarily connected. And actually, now that I look at it, she used the word—oh, this is not a story. This is, “What’s the one word that you would you use to stand for Debbie?”

Debbie Kojima: Wow.

Wes Kriesel: So, the word is reaches. I was just looking at it and noticed it twice, but she put “reaches [dash].” So, she said, “Debbie is one who thoughtfully reaches for what’s next, not because it’s a trend or popular but because she is genuinely seeking how to raise the level of her students’ thinking and her own. Debbie reaches for innovative projects to enhance student output and efficiency. Debbie reaches for research-based instructional practices because she is responding to the myriad of student needs,” and this is the one that stood out for me, so maybe you could start here. “Debbie reaches for the latest young adult book because she’s not only an avid reader herself but wants to connect with her students. Debbie reaches for others because she truly understands the meaning and importance of collaboration and community.” So, the word reaches, but talk about reaching for the young adult book. Is that true?

Debbie Kojima: No, I genuinely love, I’m an avid reader and I love young adult, truly.

Wes Kriesel: So, throw out some titles. What’s something…

Debbie Kojima: I just read—okay, I just picked up Dry by Neal Shusterman. Are you a young adult reader?

Wes Kriesel: Somewhat. I don’t know what falls in that category. I read a lot of, I would say, like fantasy like Harry-Potter-esque.

Debbie Kojima: Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. I love Harry Potter, the series.

Wes Kriesel: So, The Iron…The Magisterium, I don’t know if you know those…

Debbie Kojima: No, I’ve not read that series.

Wes Kriesel: Okay.

Debbie Kojima: What’s the latest fantasy? I just read—oh, gosh, what was that called? I just read a dystopian-like and it was a good series, and now I can’t even remember the name. But, I read The Scythe and that’s by Neal Shusterman, which was amazing.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, okay. So, that’s a name I should make a note of.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. It’s a great book.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Neal Shusterman.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. It’s a good book.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. So, Dry?

Debbie Kojima: I haven’t read it, but I’m excited. I have it at home.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Okay, tell me a little bit about Scythe and why that…

Debbie Kojima: The book?

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, and why you picked up another one by the same author.

Debbie Kojima: Well, The Scythe is about a society that’s immortal. However, these Scythes, the way they control their population, they’re never sick. Well, age, but they can like basically turn back the time, is they glean or basically glean population when it’s their time. And so, the Scythe is what they’re called. These are these people that choose…

Wes Kriesel: When it’s your time?

Debbie Kojima: When it’s your time.

Wes Kriesel: And when it’s your time, they kind of reset you, like they go back?

Debbie Kojima: No, they kill…

Wes Kriesel: Oh, they kill you.

Debbie Kojima: You’re dead.

Wes Kriesel: So, it’s kind of like the grim reaper, that motif, with Scythe.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. So, The Scythe is basically, the book is about a young, like an apprentice, and her journey. So, I’m not going to give anything away, but it’s a great what-if book.

Wes Kriesel: Wow. Yeah. Oh, I love that.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: So, is that something you pick up and then it gets into your classroom library?

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. So, I’m always looking for good read-alouds with my students. It’s probably my favorite time during the day because you share a common piece of literature.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. I love that you read aloud to your students.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah, yeah. So, I’m always looking for good young adult books. So, yeah.

Wes Kriesel: I’m just going to repeat that for our listeners. So, listeners, if you’re listening to this and you’re not sure if you should read aloud, you should, and I’m just saying any subject, like figure out a way to read aloud. It’s magical.

Debbie Kojima: Truly. Truly.

Wes Kriesel: I remember those moments from my childhood more than any other part of the day.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. I still read aloud to my son. He’s in sixth grade.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, that’s great.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: So, do you have like a book you always read aloud, like every year this is going to or often you repeat a book?

Debbie Kojima: Not necessarily because, oftentimes, I find something new. Like I said, I’m always on the search.

Wes Kriesel: You’re always—let me read the quote—“You’re always reaching for what’s next,” yeah. That’s interesting.

Debbie Kojima: Yes. So, not necessarily, but I definitely do go back to ones that I genuinely like, and I kind of prioritize and I find something new. I try as a teacher to choose different genres to expose them. I genuinely try to like expose them to different types of books.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, let’s spend a little bit of time there. So, the idea of reaching for what’s next, and yes, you have favorites, but you’re not always filling your read-aloud time with your favorites. You’re reaching for what’s next or reaching for a different genre.

Debbie Kojima: Mm-hmm.

Wes Kriesel: So, for me that ties into some of our common themes of innovation. So, innovation is just generally put like, it’s not inventing something brand new, it’s just introducing something new to a process.

Debbie Kojima: Definitely.

Wes Kriesel: So, you have read-aloud as a process. Introducing a new genre is innovation, and it’s also taking a risk because you don’t if students are going to connect with it, like keep the whole favorites.

Debbie Kojima: Definitely. Mm-hmm.

Wes Kriesel: So, tell me why. Why is that important for you to mix it up and change?

Debbie Kojima: You know, if you were asking me about telling, you know, if I were to give advice to a new teacher, I think our job is all about kind of taking risks and just jumping in and trying something new, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. And I’m always telling my students, it’s all about reflecting and taking stock and then moving on. You know, we as adults do that all the time, and so I think that’s just kind of the mindset you have to have. You just have to—especially with technology today, like there is no new app. It’s truly about just trying something, jumping in and just trying it, and like not being the expert, knowing that you’re not going to be the expert. I know being in sixth grade, they are so much further than I am technologically with whatever was the latest app. Or, you mentioned if I could go back, I remember when we first started teaching technology, it was the laptop program and this was in the very beginning in Fullerton, and I remember…

Wes Kriesel: And it was probably 2004, like that, yeah.

Debbie Kojima: It was, oh, I don’t even how long ago, but it was like those…

Wes Kriesel: When the laptop program started.

Debbie Kojima: Those boxy white laptops and a cart, and I remember having to be the expert on pages and, okay, had to show them what bold meant and just little things and doing a lesson. And today, they’re so much further than we are, these digital natives that have grown up with it, and you can’t have that expectation. You just need to jump in. And I think if you just build this community of learners and we’ll learn together, and how do I learn? I experiment and play. And so, I think if you just build that community, then yeah.

Wes Kriesel: So, I’m going to challenge you a little bit.

Debbie Kojima: Okay.

Wes Kriesel: You used the word experiment and play.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. So, when I’m in your classroom, I feel like it’s, and don’t take this the wrong way, I feel like it’s master-planned. I feel like it’s orchestrated. It doesn’t feel predictable. I just feel like you’re like a conductor who’s getting the symphony into the right…

Debbie Kojima: Oh.

Wes Kriesel: You know, it just feels very organized and orderly, but harmony and layered and it feels very sophisticated to me. So, play seems chaotic and disorderly and all these kind of antithetical things. So, is play part of your—you allow it for yourself, but this is the part I was going to push—do you get your students into sandbox spaces where you’re like, “Just play with this and don’t worry?” Is that something you do?

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. I mean, honestly, especially when you think of projects or products, like when they’re just playing, they’re learning with technology. Like I said, so many of these apps, it might be something I learned on Twitter or something. Whether I introduce something new and I say, “Okay, guys, this is my objective for what I want you to do and I don’t know a lot about it, so let’s do it.” That’s just—and they do. They do, so much quicker than I would have ever done. And when they come to me and I don’t know, I say, “I don’t know, but find someone that does and we’ll figure it out.” So, it’s just, they kind of have to.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, that’s a play space.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Like, “Let’s figure it out,” because then that set the expectations that, “It’s not that I want you to do X, like we’re going towards a goal or an outcome, but play to figure out how we’re going to get there. We don’t know.”

Debbie Kojima: Yes. Yes.

Wes Kriesel: That’s brilliant, and that’s a common thing I’ve heard before in interviews, is that teachers are kind of inviting students to actually show the teacher like, “I don’t really know how to do this, you show me.”

Wes Kriesel: Yes. Oh.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Debbie Kojima: And they do.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. I need a word for that. I don’t know. It’s like this posture of like, “Gosh, I don’t know, what do you think?” right?

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: That’s great. Okay, we got sidetracked by that. That’s great. Young adult literature gave us all of that. That’s awesome. Okay, I’m going to jump down here. So, your husband, he actually wrote us, but I’m going to use his, he had a bonus thing.

Debbie Kojima: Oh, great.

Wes Kriesel: It’s just, “Tell us anything.” So, he said, “Debbie has that thing,” and he put it in quotes, “that thing that makes her a special teacher.”

Debbie Kojima: Aw.

Wes Kriesel: So, I don’t know what that thing is. He notices it, but is that something like, do you know what your thing is?

Debbie Kojima: No.

Wes Kriesel: No?

Debbie Kojima: I don’t know.

Wes Kriesel: Do you know what’s different about you than other teachers that makes you a special teacher? Like, I’ll use it, a memorable teacher. I think my perception being in your classroom space is students will remember you because you’ve made these magical moments. It feels special. It feels sacred almost.

Debbie Kojima: I don’t know. I mean…

Wes Kriesel: You’re so humble.

Debbie Kojima: I guess, don’t know, I try to build a community where you celebrate one another and it’s an environment where we’re learners and we push one another. I definitely have a high sense of urgency. I always have, regardless of school. So, I’m a pusher. I don’t know. I mean, and I’m a learner. I love to learn. I genuinely love to learn. So, I don’t know.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. I will take your answer. You’re like, “I don’t know,” but I think just that phrase “we’re a community of learners and we push and push each other and I push,” but it’s also a community of learners, it’s not just, “I’m just pushing.” It’s not drill sergeant.

Debbie Kojima: Right.

Wes Kriesel: It’s like, “We’re in this space for a specific reason and we’re trying to get here and it’s urgent, but we’re also taking care of each other along the journey.”

Debbie Kojima: I hope so, yeah. That’s definitely a hope that I have.

Wes Kriesel: That’s awesome.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: So, on that note, the next thing he writes is, “She connects with the kids, and then the kids renamed dodgeball.”

Debbie Kojima: Oh, gosh.

Wes Kriesel: Do you know what’s coming?

Debbie Kojima: Yeah, that’s a bonus. Yes. That happened this year, actually.

Wes Kriesel: Okay, so tell me about that.

Debbie Kojima: Well, I play nationball with my class and I’ve done it even in my Orangethorpe days. I’ve always loved to play nationball and dodgeball.

Wes Kriesel: In grade school.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah! Me, too.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: And so, I just love it. It’s definitely something that I love to do and I’m pretty good.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. So, you’re talking about at recess, your students go out to play or what?

Debbie Kojima: Sometimes it’s at recess. Most of the time, though, it’s like we earn dodgeball.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, okay. And so, not in the context of recess.

Debbie Kojima: No, not always.

Wes Kriesel: You just say, “You’ve earned it. We’re going to go play.”

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: And you play with them.

Debbie Kojima: Yes.

Wes Kriesel: That’s what he’s getting at.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: “She connects with the kids and the kids renamed dodgeball to…

Debbie Kojima: [00:30:21 Kojimaball.]

Wes Kriesel: You’re so sheepish.

Debbie Kojima: That’s what my kids said this year. They coined that term. It’s funny.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool. And he writes, “Because she loves playing with them.” So, he says, “She challenges them to be better students and human beings, and she is their biggest supporter me.”

Debbie Kojima: Aw. That’s nice.

Wes Kriesel: So, tell me about—so here’s the second time play came up, is we’re talking about kind of experimental play, risk-taking space, but then there’s a quote in here about you actually play with your students.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. Literally play with them, yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, why do you do that? You said you love it, but it’s not entirely selfish. You’re not doing it just for you. What does it add?

Debbie Kojima: Yeah. It’s just a fun kind of way to bond, I guess, and connect and, I don’t know, the kids love it. I mean, I still have kids from Orangethorpe, whether it’s their social media saying, “Do you still play dodgeball?”

Wes Kriesel: Really?

Debbie Kojima: I do.

Wes Kriesel: That’s awesome.

Debbie Kojima: I do. So, yeah, it’s fun.

Wes Kriesel: Oh my gosh. I just looked at our time. We’re at 30 minutes, but there is one more…

Debbie Kojima: Okay.

Wes Kriesel: You actually had, I think four people responded, so we have one more quote from a colleague, Danielle Carrillo, and she wrote on her first day of teaching sixth grade, she was excited but nervous, and she said you went into her classroom. Do you remember that?

Debbie Kojima: No.

Wes Kriesel: So, she said you went into her classroom before she got to school and left a note on her desk.

Debbie Kojima: Oh, yes.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah? You do remember that?

Debbie Kojima: Yeah, I do.

Wes Kriesel: So, she said that you wrote words of encouragement and reminded her that she can do it. So, tell me about that moment.

Debbie Kojima: Well, and honestly, that was something that Stacy Hollenbeck did for me and it meant a lot. It really did help because it’s such a scary, you know. I mean, you’re a teacher and first day is really scary, and I just remember how much it meant.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah.

Debbie Kojima: So, I felt like—and she is amazing, so yeah, just that little, you know, “You can do it.”

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: I love that. Well, we are genuinely out of time.

Debbie Kojima: Okay.

Wes Kriesel: This flew by.

Debbie Kojima: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: This flew by. Hopefully, you’re okay.

Debbie Kojima: Yes! I’m okay.

Wes Kriesel: You okay?

Debbie Kojima: I survived.

Wes Kriesel: You survived. All right, so thank you so much.

Debbie Kojima: You’re welcome. Thank you.

Outro: This has been the Teacher Interview Podcast. Thank you for joining us.

[00:32:58]