Linda Kelley podcast transcript

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Intro: Welcome to the Teacher Interview Podcast. I’m your host, Wes Kriesel. I work as Director of Innovation and Instructional Support in Fullerton School District, and every week we sit down and get to know a teacher better. My goal is to learn what drives and guides teachers, especially when venturing into that risky territory of trying something new. Join me. Today on the Teacher Interview Podcast, we spend time with Linda Kelley. She teaches at Sunset Lane Elementary School in Fullerton.

Wes Kriesel: Well, Linda, welcome. Thanks for agreeing to do this. That’s your turn to say…

Linda Kelley: Thanks, Wes. I’m so thrilled to be here.

Wes Kriesel: That’s your turn to say—There you go. That’s your time to say you aren’t being forced. So yeah, we’re going to start with a little bit of talk about how you got into teaching, and then I did some pre-interviews with some people that you referred me to, and so I have some quotes from them that we will address or bring into the conversation and get your reaction. But, our general themes are risk-taking, innovation, trying things new, and we’ll try to touch on those as we go. So, without further ado, tell me, how’d you get into teaching?

Linda Kelley: Well, I was one of those that always wanted to be a teacher.

Wes Kriesel: Really?

Linda Kelley: When I was a child, you could always find me with my little chalkboard that I got for Christmas one year pretending to be a teacher.

Wes Kriesel: You got a chalkboard for Christmas so you could pretend to be a teacher?

Linda Kelley: I did.

Wes Kriesel: Wow.

Linda Kelley: So, I knew at that young age that I was destined to become a teacher. I did not have anyone in my family that was a teacher. My mom was a nurse and most of her sisters were nurses. But, I had such a positive experience in school myself that I knew from some of the teachers that I really, really enjoyed that I would one day want to be a teacher.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool. So, do you remember a specific teacher’s name?

Linda Kelley: My favorite teacher was my third-grade teacher, Ms. [00:02:17 Moriarty].

Wes Kriesel: Okay. That’s a great name.

Linda Kelley: [00:02:20 Moriarty,] I know. I also had a teacher named Mrs. [00:02:22 Wigglesworth.]

Wes Kriesel: What?

Linda Kelley: So, this was back in Ohio where I don’t know how they ended up with these names, but Ms. [00:02:29 Moriarty] just made learning fun. She was really into art and she just inspired everyone in the class to be the best that they could be. So, I just enjoyed every moment in that third-grade year. Not all of my elementary school years were that great, but I think just seeing how some of the teachers that I enjoyed really did embrace the learning aspect of teaching and made it not only fun but I could see that they loved what they were doing.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, that’s great. I love that. So, from third grade, let’s go forward a little.

Linda Kelley: So, I graduated from high school way back in 1978, and I already knew that I was going to be selecting a college where they had a teacher education program. So, I went to Bowling Green State University and, actually, I went away to college with my kindergarten best friend. She and I remained friends all through elementary, junior high and high school, and both decided we wanted to be teachers.

Wes Kriesel: Wow.

Linda Kelley: So, we headed off to Bowling Green and both pursued the elementary teaching credential at that time and, in four years, we graduated and decided that staying in Ohio was not what we wanted to do. And so, we hopped into my 1978 Chevy Chevette, drove across the country and landed in Anaheim, California.

Wes Kriesel: No way. Okay. That’s a great story, but Anaheim, why was that the destination?

Linda Kelley: Well, I had a great-aunt and -uncle who every year would come back to Ohio to visit my parents, and they would talk about Disneyland and the beach and just how beautiful California was. So, around my sophomore or junior year of college, I thought, “You know what? I need to go check this out.”

Wes Kriesel: I love that.

Linda Kelley: So, another friend of mine, we came out for spring break my junior year of college and we went to all the places. Disneyland. We were in Hollywood. We were in Palm Springs. We went to Laguna Beach. In a week’s time, and mind you, this is March, we did as much as we could. In that week’s time, I went back and I said, “I’m out. I am moving to California.”

Wes Kriesel: That’s a bold move.

Linda Kelley: It was a very bold move because I had no job, but…

Wes Kriesel: Okay. That’s a bolder move.

Linda Kelley: I had a place to live. My great-aunt and -uncle said, “You know what? We live in this mobile home park. You can come and live with us [00:04:57 till you] get a job. That’s all I needed, an invite. I’m like, “Okay, I’ll go.”

Wes Kriesel: Okay. And so, from there into actually a teaching position.

Linda Kelley: Well, my first year in California, there were no jobs. This was 1982, and I tried to apply for different positions and there just weren’t any available jobs. So, I ended up getting a job at a preschool in Yorba Linda. So, I taught a pre-K and a 4-year-old class. I think it was kindergarten and a 4-year-old class. So, that was really my first year of teaching. I loved it. I was able to try out all of the different things that I learned in college, and the kids were so cute and just so much fun. But, the downside was I was making $6 an hour.

Wes Kriesel: Wow.

Linda Kelley: S, you know, it wasn’t great pay, but then again, I was living with my great-aunt and uncle, so they weren’t charging me anything. But, three months into that teaching session, I met a gal who was looking to move out, and so now I had an opportunity to find a place to live and I needed more than $6 an hour.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah. So, where’d you get your first teaching job?

Linda Kelley: My first real job teaching then, well, what I ended up doing the next year after the preschool job, I started subbing in Fullerton, and I ended up at Laguna Road and Harold Sullivan was the principal at the time. So, I went in. He had a teacher whose husband was very ill and he said, “Well, I’m going to need you for a long-term in fourth grade.” I’m like, “Great, I’ll take it.” Started out. Long story short, the husband died and the wife came back to work, so I was only there maybe a week, week and a half. But, that got me into the Fullerton District with just subbing.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Linda Kelley: So, about a month or two later, I was doing a lot of subbing at Golden Hill and there was a position that opened up because the sixth-grade teacher had taken, back then it was called Chapter One. It was like the resource position, RTI position of today. So, it opened up a sixth-grade classroom and, because I had subbed there a few times, the principal said, “Hey, you want an interview?” We sat down. She offered me the job. The end of October, I was teaching sixth grade in a bilingual classroom, Spanish-English. Remember, I’m from Ohio.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Okay.

Linda Kelley: No Spanish. At Golden Hill. So, it was a great learning year. I have to say, it was not my best year of teaching because it was tough. I was 23, I probably really should have had a little more life experience, and it was a tough class.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, tell me about—you obviously got through that.

Linda Kelley: I did.

Wes Kriesel: But, you look back and you go, “It was tough.” What do you think it was about you that made you come out and you stayed in teaching, right, and…

Linda Kelley: Well, I had this aha moment and I have to share this with you because, at the end of that year, I really seriously thought, “Maybe teaching isn’t for me.” I mean, I had a great group of kids, but then I had these really troubled kids and I felt like I didn’t reach them. So, that summer, I was doing temporary work because I had moved out and I was paying rent, and I was working at just like agencies doing secretarial work, receptionist, so answering phones. And after that summer, I thought, “Maybe I’m just going to interview for one of these positions and get out of teaching and go into this.” So, I applied for a job. I don’t even remember what it was. But, I had gone in for the interview, I sat down with this gentleman, he looked over at the resume, he knew I was teaching, and he said, “Why are you here?” And I kind of told him a little bit about my first-year experience of teaching, and he said, “You need to go back and teach again.” He said, “This is what you trained for. You went to school for four years.” So, he basically talked me out of pursuing the job.

Wes Kriesel: Wow.

Linda Kelley: So, I’m like, “You know what? You’re right. I do need to give this another shot.” So, I went back, my second year at Golden Hill, and I had a fabulous experience.

Wes Kriesel: Oh my gosh.

Linda Kelley: Fabulous. It was great.

Wes Kriesel: That’s a great story.

Linda Kelley: But, had I maybe interviewed for something else, I might have gotten out of teaching and never had given it a shot.

Wes Kriesel: Wow. And thank goodness for somebody with that kind of insight.

Linda Kelley: I know it.

Wes Kriesel: But then, also, kind of the boldness to say…

Linda Kelley: Right, “What are you doing? You need to go back into that…” I almost felt like he was my dad across the table telling me, “You got this degree in education. Go back to the classroom.” So, that was a great experience.

Wes Kriesel: Wow.

Linda Kelley: And then, I kind of thought to myself, “I’m not really cut out for sixth grade.”

Wes Kriesel: Oh.

Linda Kelley: Here, I’m now 24, and I didn’t feel like it was my strength at that level to be teaching. So, I was able to move down to third grade the following year and that was fabulous. I loved it. And I thought, “Okay, these are my people.”

Wes Kriesel: “These are my people.”

Linda Kelley: I need to be working with the younger kids. They relate better with—I could relate better to where they were at in life.

Wes Kriesel: That’s interesting. So, let’s take a couple of those experiences, one, having a tough experience and then the next year was great, two, having somebody else kind of speak some wisdom into your life where you’re like, “Thank you for that encouragement.” So, how would you maybe encourage somebody new on your staff, a new teacher now? How would you, Linda, try to motivate or direct somebody who’s like, “Not sure about how it’s going?”

Linda Kelley: Well, I know the mistake that I made in going into the position thinking, “I could be a 12-year-old’s friend.” Here I am, the teacher, the person in charge, and I think I was wanting to be that person that would understand and show respect for, but in turn, I don’t believe my students looked at me as the person in charge. I was trying to be more of their friend and that didn’t work. So, I had to kind of learn the hard way that you have to go into this, a classroom, saying, “I am the person in charge, but I’m going to love you whether you screw up or not. But, I am the person who’s go to be making the decisions and what we do and how we do it.” And I think when kids know that going in, then they begin to respect you as that teacher.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Linda Kelley: And I didn’t do that that first year.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Linda Kelley: So, my advice would be you definitely have to develop your discipline plan and make sure that it is one that you can use throughout the year and be positive and yet know that there are consequences for behavior that you don’t like.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, on that topic, you have like, let’s say, that was kind of wisdom looking back for that initial period. Have you swung back the other way where you’ve kind of, like over time, been able to do some things that are less authoritarian? Or, how does that work over time, how you look at that?

Linda Kelley: I think for me, because now I’m fast-forward back in sixth grade and I had not been in sixth grade for over 30 years…

Wes Kriesel: Oh, so that’s a recent change.

Linda Kelley: Yeah, just last year was my first year back in sixth grade.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Okay.

Wes Kriesel: And I think the wisdom as a parent that I’ve acquired and having my own children and then just all the years of teaching experience, I mean, you can’t replace that. You just build on what you’ve learned along the way. And kids are different today. I mean, every year you see the differences in our students and I think it’s so important that you’re moving forward with them, because the way I taught back in 1983 definitely is not the year I’m teaching in 2018, and even last year. I mean, every year I see that as a teacher you have to be willing to learn the way they’re learning and change your direction of how you’re teaching them the way that you can tap into their style of learning, and it’s not the way I learned at all.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. I’m just going to repeat that phrase, “learn the way they’re learning.” That’s interesting. So, not only just teach the way they’re learning but kind of like really picking up on how they learn and trying to almost experience it yourself like afresh or anew.

Linda Kelley: Yup, absolutely. I mean, and I’m so thankful that I’ve had lots of opportunity, I mean, through different workshops and trainings and things that people throughout my life have brought in. And I think the biggest change for me was about five or six years ago when I went through the technology program that Ted Lai directed, and once a month we went to some location and he taught us a new piece of technology. And this is back when we were just starting to implement iPads—you maybe had one in your class—and we were just starting to learn about laptops and everything. But, every month, he would teach us a new trick of how to integrate it into the classroom. But, the part that really stood out for me was that we had to do a project. We had to do something with what he taught us. So, we’d go back in the classroom, we would use our students to integrate whatever new lesson he had taught us about, and that solidified my learning and then allowed me to see, “Wow, what a difference this is making with my students!”

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Linda Kelley: So, he was definitely my inspiration into using technology because I didn’t know anything. I really didn’t, and I was even hesitant on taking the class. I thought, “Oh, yeah, this is kind of going into that unknown water that I don’t know if I can do this and keep up with all these other people who seem to have a lot more knowledge than me.” But, I’m telling you, he let us take the steps where we were at and I learned so much from that man. He’s definitely been my inspiration.

Wes Kriesel: That’s great. So, let’s go back just a little bit. You were unsure about the class but you did it, so who convinced you or what was that step? What was it in you that said, “Yes?”

Linda Kelley: I felt like I had nothing to lose.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, that’s interesting.

Linda Kelley: I went into it going, “You know what? If I can’t keep up with it, I’m sure he’ll let me drop the class,” because he’ll be like, “You just need to go and maybe watch some YouTubes or videos.” But, I thought, “You know what? If I don’t try, then I’m going to be missing out on a lot of learning.” And I felt the same way when I moved to California. I could have stayed in Ohio and maybe eventually found a job, but if I don’t take that risk, where are you going to get?

Wes Kriesel: That’s interesting, yeah.

Linda Kelley: And I’ve always tried to instill that in my on children, you know, “Hey, what do you have to lose? Go ahead, try it out. If it doesn’t work out, you can move back home or you can try a different job.” And I really try to have my students see that same viewpoint because they’re always wanting to take maybe the easy route or the sure route, and it’s like, “No, no, no, go ahead. Go try the class and see whether or not it’s for you.”

Wes Kriesel: That’s great. That’s great.

Linda Kelley: So, maybe just because I lived that experience myself.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, we have interviews that already have kind of suggested connections to what you’re saying. So, I’m going to share a story and this is from your principal, Tracy Gyurina.

Linda Kelley: Gyurina.

Wes Kriesel: Gyurina. So, the story that she told, the question was kind of a moment where Linda’s being Linda as no one else can. So, she said, “Last year, I needed to switch Linda’s grade level. Although she wasn’t super-enthusiastic about the change, she went into the new grade level assignment with an open mind and she was determined to make the most of it.” She said a week into the school year, you approached her. Do you remember that?

Linda Kelley: I do remember that.

Wes Kriesel: What was that moment?

Linda Kelley: Well, I think I stopped by her office and I actually thanked her for moving me because I…

Wes Kriesel: Really?

Linda Kelley: I did. I went and I said, “I love this age. I didn’t realize what I was missing,” because, you know, I’d stayed with third and fourth and second grade for all these years. And I said, “I love what I see now in sixth grade.” And you remember when you said, “Really?” how bad of an experience I had when I first started out. And I said, “Thank you for moving me,” because I would have never done that myself. I would have never said, “Yeah, move me to sixth grade.” Mm-mm.

Wes Kriesel: That’s so interesting. Okay, so you’re Linda who moved from Ohio to California, which is drastic, it’s a big leap, and then you have a bad experience in sixth grade and then you stayed in third grade for so long.

Linda Kelley: I did, second, third, and then I moved to fourth and I was there maybe three years, and then she said, “We need somebody to go to sixth grade.” I’m like, “Don’t pick me, don’t pick me!”

Wes Kriesel: So, walk me through this. Let’s say you have colleagues who they’re that person who’s like, “I had a bad experience. No, thanks. I’ll just stay where I am safe,” how do you relate to them knowing that you’ve seen both sides and then the real benefit of stepping out with the class with Ted Lai or sixth grade? How do you know work with colleagues and what do you say to them? Who’s Linda in that situation?

Linda Kelley: You know what? I really believe that teachers, after so many years and I don’t want to put a number on it, should try a different grade level because, moving either up or down, you get a different perspective of what’s coming to you or what left you. And if you’re only in one grade level, you never see the differences. And there’s a huge difference in working with a sixth-grader compared to fourth grade, not just the maturity but just by sixth grade some kids are accelerated in their learning and then you have those kids that have missed out in learning third-grade content, fourth-grade content, and now you’re trying to expose them to sixth grade and you’re like, “Aah.” But, if you stay in that one grade level, then that’s all you know. And when you change grade levels, you become a new teacher. Nothing is the same as what you did before. But, that gets you out of that comfort zone and into that new learning phase, which I think as an educator, that’s why we went into teaching.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. You think so?

Linda Kelley: I think so. I mean, I love the new curriculum that I get to learn.

Wes Kriesel: That’s awesome.

Linda Kelley: Now, the math is challenging. The math is very challenging. But, you know, it’s exciting to see the new things that you get to learn yourself before you’re teaching your students.

Wes Kriesel: That’s awesome.

Linda Kelley: I think everybody should experience grade-level change at some point, but you have to be ready for it. If you’re pushed into it and you’re not at a point in life where you can take—your little baby’s at home and that, you don’t want to change grade levels. But, me, I wasn’t in that situation, so it was a good thing. It really was.

Wes Kriesel: That’s good. So, I have another quote. This is from colleague Pam.

Linda Kelley: Mm-hmm.

Wes Kriesel: And so, she talked about one thing that stood out to her. This was the question where I said, “Is there anything else you want to tell me?” so just bonus information for me. And she said, “Each year, Linda takes on the challenge of mentoring student-teachers, which she calls ‘the future of the world.’”

Linda Kelley: Oh, that’s sweet.

Wes Kriesel: And she said, “I have watched her work with these young men and women and they’re very fortunate to have,” you as their guide, and your passion for teaching, learning and sharing your knowledge carries on into the future through them. So, talk about that side.

Linda Kelley: I love mentoring new teachers. I really do enjoy that, whether they’re a student-observer or they are going in through the credentialing program and learning how to teach. I just feel like we have so much of that life experience in teaching that you want to tell them about the good and the bad, and you want to let them know that, “Hey, I have had failures. It’s not always been rosy. There have been things that have gone wrong,” but you just try to instill in them the same love that you have. And I always tell them, “You guys need to be like sponges. Take it all in. Ask the questions. No question is a bad question. Write down everything you want to know. We’ll talk about it later when we have a chance,” but I just want them to jump in and experience what it’s like and make sure that they’re in the right profession, and let them know the amount of work that it takes to be a good, effective teacher, not to think it’s the 8:00 to 3:30 job that you’re going to have. And you can see it in them when they start working with the kids whether they really love what they’re doing or it’s kind of like, “Well, maybe I want to be a teacher.”

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, so talk to me more about that. What do you see in somebody who’s young and they’re engaging in kind of those formative steps of becoming a teacher? What do you see that’s like a, “Oh no,” or a, “Oh yes?” What is that?

Linda Kelley: Well, the “oh yes” is I see how they’re trying to build the rapport with the kids. I mean, even day one, they say to them, “Hi,” and “Welcome,” and really trying to walk around and get to know their names and try to figure out who’s who in their learning abilities and that. And then, even when you say, “Okay, I want you to take a small group,” and like, “Oh, sure,” and they’ll jump right in and start doing things, versus maybe someone who you can tell doesn’t interact with the kids at all or they don’t ask you any questions about the day’s events. But, when you have a good one, they’ll even send you an email or text, “Hey, how did that go with so-and-so’s parent?” knowing that I had a conference or something, and they’re doing things beyond the time that they’re with me. I’m like, “Well, this kid’s a star,” and you really want to help that person hopefully get a job down the road. And we’ve had some great candidates from Cal State. I mean, I really have been impressed with their program and been very fortunate to have both the observers and the student-teachers on our campus that’s because they’ve been topnotch kids so far. And I have one now, a gentleman who, you know, I haven’t had a male student-teacher in a long time, probably 25 years, and just to see the enthusiasm he has for wanting to learn, it’s like what you want to see in your own students in the classroom. So, I’m excited, and we’re only in like week three. He’s showing promising signs of being another great teacher.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. Talk about that. What’s the phrase you used, like being excited about learning, like you could see it in him?

Linda Kelley: Mm-hmm.

Wes Kriesel: Talk about, how does that translate if the teacher is excited about learning? How does that affect students?

Linda Kelley: Oh my gosh, night and day. I mean, to me, that’s the key. When they see the enthusiasm that you have for something or you have found a fun activity for them to do with something that maybe is not so fun but you make it fun, it’s the difference with I think the kids’, number one, getting excited about it and maybe, hopefully, learning and remembering what you’ve taught. And not everything can be fun and game, but if you try to at least bring the enthusiasm that you have for teaching it, and even the things that aren’t so fun, if you just say, “Hey, guys, I know this is tough but, hey, we’re going to work through this together and I’m here to help you,” if they know that you are invested in what they’re learning, then they’re going to do their best to try to learn it, even the kids that struggle. I mean, if they see that you are really wanting to help them, then they’re going to respond.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, pretend that I’m that student-teacher who’s on the border. I don’t quite get that. Coach me, like, what do I need to do? I really want to be that person, but I’m just not there. What behaviors does that teacher exhibit where I’m really that tuned into the student? What should I be doing or saying?

Linda Kelley: And that’s tough. That’s a hard call because…

Wes Kriesel: That’s why I gave that question to you.

Linda Kelley: I know, and I’ve run into that before, because you want them to take the initiative and see with their own eyes what they should be doing and how they should be helping, but there are some that I’ve had in the past that don’t see that. So, you have to do more of the coaching, “Hey, Wes, why don’t you go over there? Susie needs some help reading this passage. Why don’t you go ahead and read that to her.” So, you’re giving them more direct…

Wes Kriesel: Like something they wouldn’t pick up on as a need and you give them that direction.

Linda Kelley: Yes, right. Yup. Or, you might have a direct, you know, a plan that you’ve written down paper, so when they come in that morning, “Okay, here’s your list of things that I want you to do today.” So, time-wise and that, you go ahead. And some people operate better that way, but you hope that you see a candidate that’s more in tune with the whole classroom setting. And after they’ve watched you for a few days, they kind of get the flow of your room and how you operate and the structure the classroom. And when they start asking you questions, they want to know more, to me, that’s like the key. That’s the key.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool. Okay. So, let’s say you tell me, “Wes, go over there and read to that student,” and I do it and I don’t have any questions for you, so what’s your followup? How do you spark that next step in me?

Linda Kelley: That’s a hard one.

Wes Kriesel: I know. That’s why I’m asking you.

Linda Kelley: And that’s when you talk to the supervisor in private and you say, “Have a word with Wes. I’ve really tried to help him but maybe he should be selling cars.” Well, they’re really good about picking up on that, too. I mean, the supervisors, they want you to be up front with them. They want to know early on because if it’s not for you, then they want to be able to have that conversation and say, “You know Wes, we’re going to give you another shot, but if we don’t see any signs of you really wanting to learn more about this profession, then maybe plan B is where you need to go.”

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, it is great because I’m learning so much. You spoke highly about the Cal State Fullerton program, but to know there’s that kind of fine attention to kind of how a person kind of lives in the classroom space, whether they’re, I guess the word that keeps popping up to me is whether they’re curious about learning or not, it’s kind of reassuring because you don’t want them to get their credential and then be in year two as a probationary teacher and then somebody says you’re not cut out for it.

Linda Kelley: Right.

Wes Kriesel: You’d rather have people early on saying, “We need to see X, Y or Z.” So, that’s reassuring.

Linda Kelley: Well, and I think it’s important, too, that you’re very honest with them on the time commitment because teaching is not 8:00 to 3:30. They need to understand that there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that goes into what you’re teaching because, of course, veteran teachers make it look very easy when you’re up there and teaching. But, they need to know, “Okay, well, here’s what I had to do in order to prepare that lesson. That took hours. And here’s the material that I was using and I had to weed out the stuff that I didn’t want to use.” So, they really need to see it’s not just a book, a TE, because we haven’t had materials in Fullerton for a while in certain content areas. So, it’s like, you have to be willing to go beyond and look for things that you think are going to spark the interest of your students and cover the standards, and that’s not done in the hours of your workday. You have to be willing to commit that time outside of the classroom to make that happen.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. And you just said that sentence very easily but, I mean, so, sparking interest in students and covering the standards and it’s almost like, you didn’t specifically say it but it’s almost like you’re kind of always looking for those things. It’s just how you view the world. You come across something, you see something online or on TV, and you’re like…

Linda Kelley: I’m a huge Twitter follower now of certain people and I never did until we started iPersonalize when I was still back in fourth grade and they made us sign up for Twitter. I’m like, “I don’t know what that is.”

Wes Kriesel: If you’re listening, you should see the look of fear in Linda’s eyes.

Linda Kelley: I’m like, “Twitter? What is that?”

Wes Kriesel: What is that?

Linda Kelley: So, once we signed up and we started using it through our training, and then I think we had Lisa Highfill—is that the HyperDoc lady?

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah.

Linda Kelley: So, she came and spoke with us and then certain names started popping up and I just started following them, and the wealth of information that comes across Twitter is amazing. So, every summer or throughout the year, I will look and there’ll be things, a hyperlink posted, I’ll look at it, “Hey, this is great!” take it. And that’s one thing I share with my student-teacher. I said, “You need to get a Twitter account, you need to start following,” and certain people you just learn about along the way. I don’t have a list to share. I just look at different stuff. But, after like when you guys go to the CUE conferences, there’s a big following then, so I just kind of look at the materials that are out there.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, that’s a great tip, and it goes into that like always being curious and in the learning mode, is Twitter’s a resource that you can use to improve teaching and learning.

Linda Kelley: Right. It is. It’s a great resource.

Wes Kriesel: Love it. Yeah.

Linda Kelley: Because it’s the newest and latest things that are out there, too, so you find different apps and different resources that people have posted after their conferences. They might even post their whole presentation, and so you just weed through the slides, click away.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, that’s great. So, we’re getting close to time, but we have another quote here and this is from your daughter, Lauren. And so, the question was a moment that is significantly kind of symbolic of you.

Linda Kelley: Mm-hmm.

Wes Kriesel: So, she says you care about your students far beyond the job description. “She once told me”—so this is something she had related to you. She told you about a student in your class who in the first couple days of school kept checking into the office because she didn’t feel well, and then you went and sought the student out and then seemed like kind of probed into what the real issue at hand was, and the student—do you remember this?

Linda Kelley: Yes, I do, just this year.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Oh, tell me, tell me.

Linda Kelley: Well, I actually have this student in fourth grade and she was in the GATE class in fourth grade, was placed in the GATE class in fifth grade. Well, then sixth grade, she did not get placed in the GATE class because she was just a school-based student. All of her friends were in the GATE class. So now, two years later, she’s placed in a class where she doesn’t really have what she considered her friends. So, the second day of school, she started complaining about a stomachache and didn’t feel well and went to the office, and they sent her home. Well, the next day, she showed up and she was just hysterical, in tears and everything. She didn’t want to come into the class. So, the secretary had called me to tell me that, she said, “We’re going to keep her here, but I just wanted you to know.” So, I’m like, “Okay, how do I deal with this problem? Hmm.” So, I decided that I was going to talk to my students about the situation because I felt like we needed to reach out to her to let her know, “We want you here. We’re really sad that you don’t feel like you’re a part of this team and we really want you to be in our classroom.” So, I had just asked the kids, I said, “I don’t want you to say anything to her.” I said, “But, she’s going to be coming back in later this afternoon and, whatever you can do to really make her feel like she wants to be here and wants to come back tomorrow,” I said, “you know, go out of your way to make that happen because I’m really sad that she feels this way.” So, I left it at that. She did come in later that afternoon but it was towards the end of the day, and then I saw the kids the next day when we were lining up go over, talking to her and everything. Recess, I saw the same type of reaction. And now, the girl is as happy as can be. But, it was one of those moments where it was like, “How do I handle this? What do I do to make this a better situation but yet respect the privacy of the child?” I didn’t want her to be singled out, but yet I wanted the other kids to know that she’s having these feelings about this class.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah, and it seems like a very fine line and through experience—so, walk me through, how did you know, your kind of instinct, to go that direction with the class? What was it inside you that said, “This is the way I’m going to go?” Because you didn’t really know.

Linda Kelley: No, I didn’t really know. I think I just felt so bad about her feeling in tears and not wanting to be in school, and I think having had a relationship with her for that whole year of fourth grade, I knew she was a very shy child. And she had one really good friend the year in fourth grade, and then it so happened that this friend moved away after fifth grade, so here she lost that friend and now all of her GATE friends are in the other class. So, I think I kind of related to that shyness in that, because I was like that as a child, and just knowing that she must be in a place that she can’t get out of—you know, complaining about being sick, crying to her mom, hysterical in the office—that there was something that we had to do as a class, and I couldn’t do it alone, to change around that feeling that she was having. So, I just looked at it as a family, you know, what would a family do? A family would reach out. A family would help. A family would try to change those feelings. And I, only knowing the class for a couple of days, I thought, “Okay, I’m taking a huge risk here. This could backfire,” but it didn’t. It didn’t, and it was just so neat to see them rally around her and maybe relate to that feeling.

I had a couple of new kids who were also trying to find their way into social circles. We had done some talking about different ways to make people feel at home and in a classroom, and so they really took the challenge and it’s been a happy story.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. That’s great. I mean, I don’t want to stay on the point too long, but you did almost call it a risk, like you’re taking this risk.

Linda Kelley: I was.

Wes Kriesel: And the fact that you, I mean, you realized there’s kind of some humility in, “I can’t solve it alone,” and then I really think there’s kind of wisdom through experience that you can’t fake where you’re like, it’s almost like if you’ve seen some of the movies about astronauts and the things we have to do—Hidden Figures is one, Apollo 13, where it’s like, “We’ve really never done this before, but we’re going to try to make this work.”

Linda Kelley: Exactly. I felt that way.

Wes Kriesel: And so, you had this like emotional, “I’m going to try to pull the class this way to bring the student back.” It’s really touching. People, if you’re not crying right now… No, it’s really like, I mean, it’s one of the things, the phrase that comes to mind is, “Teaching is an art,” you know?

Linda Kelley: Definitely.

Wes Kriesel: And it’s really like, there’s no kind of formula somebody could have put down in a book about teaching to accomplish that.

Linda Kelley: Right.

Wes Kriesel: So, I mean, it’s just beautiful. Anyways, thank you for sharing that.

Linda Kelley: Oh, that’s funny that Lauren mentioned that story, too. Yeah, because I did tell her about it because it was just really one of those situations I just thought, “Gosh, I got to turn this girl around. I just hate the fact that she doesn’t want to be in school, and here it is, day three, and we’re feeling this way.” So, like I said, it was a risk but, luckily, it worked out.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. I mean, we’re at the end of our time, but I kind of want to tie that back into like, I mean, we do talk about innovation and risk-taking and trying things new, and this was a really unique situation. I don’t know that we’ve on the podcast really talked about like that kind of expertise with making a kind of a leap and then bringing a group of young people that you are just getting to know yourselves. Again, I just want to say, that’s masterful and it’s just beautiful. And so, I really thank you for sharing that because when I first heard you talk about it, I was like, “Oh, lord. Listeners, don’t do that.”

Linda Kelley: And I thought the same thing myself. It’s like, “Oh man, I might be stepping over some lines.” But, I just felt there was something that I needed to say and I just did it in a way that I wanted to protect her, but yet I wanted to help her. And I thought the only way, I can’t help her but I know my students can help her.

Wes Kriesel: That’s awesome.

Linda Kelley: So, in order to do so, I kind of need to let them know how we can go about doing that.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. And then, ultimately, it’s really not just about her because the whole class is learning, “Oh, well, the student next to me who wasn’t mentioned, that could apply. I could be a friend or act like family to them, too.”

Linda Kelley: Right.

Wes Kriesel: Well, I just want to say, thank you. That’s kind of the end of our time, and thank you so much for coming down and doing this.

Linda Kelley: You’re so welcome. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.

Wes Kriesel: That’s going to be our new slogan: Teacher Interview Podcast, not as bad as you think. All right, thanks, Linda.

Linda Kelley: You’re welcome. Thanks, Wes.

Outro: This has been the Teacher Interview Podcast.

[00:39:31]