Wes: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Teacher Interview podcast.

I'm your host, Wes Creel. I work as Director of Innovation and Instructional support in Fullerton School District, and we are now in season four of the podcast where we get to know teachers better. Our themes this season, our passion, drive and determination. Join me. Today we spend time with Pamela Zelle who teaches sixth grade at Hermosa Drive Elementary.

Join us.

Pamela: Okay. Hi, Pamela. Hello, Wes. How are

Wes: you? I'm good. Thanks for coming down and making time for this interview. I'm rolling. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to interview you. We have some quotes from some people that you work with, and um, but first, why don't you [00:01:00] start off by telling us, um, a little like kind of overview of where you've been in your teaching career.

Maybe I. Working back from the most immediate and backward to where you started teaching? Okay.

Pamela: So for the last 21 years I've been at Hermosa Drive in, oh gosh, Fullerton, California. Wow. And I have loved every moment that I've been there. Prior to that, I was lucky enough to be a military wife. So I taught in Sicily, Italy for four years at the Cella School.

I taught fourth grade through sixth grade, but I was only there for about four years. So I did most of my time in fourth grade there. And where in Italy? It was Cella Sicily. Okay. So it was in Katana on the eastern border in like the middle of the island. I'm just

Wes: struggling. I went to Italy for the first time this summer.

I saw your pictures. They were gorgeous. Oh, thank you Rome And. Uh, Florence. Beautiful. So this is in the south? Yeah. So

Pamela: where the toe of the boot kind of kicks. Okay. It's that island. That's perfect. And [00:02:00] that they have a, uh, a naval military base there. Okay. So I taught military kids on this. Tell me

Wes: something you remember or something you learned.

That stands out from that period of time? From teaching?

Pamela: Yeah. In Italy. Oh gosh. It, first of all, the people that I taught, the children of military, um, people that are stationed mm-hmm. They are such an eclectic group. They are, um, very different than the kids that we teach here in the United States because, um, some of them have one parent that's deployed, or some of them even have.

Two parents that are deployed at the same time. Wow. So it gets kind of challenging and they love being overseas, but also they're displaced. So there's a lot of things that go on that you really have to watch for as a teacher, as an educator. But I loved it. Yeah, I would've stayed, but um, we had some aging parents, so we had to

Wes: come back to the states.

Oh, I see, I see. Wow. What was the weather like there in the gorgeous

Pamela: here? Gorgeous. Like California. Like [00:03:00] California, yep. Same latitude line. Yeah. Did

Wes: you grow up in California?

Pamela: No, I'm a, um, so then let's go further back. Okay. So that's, so that's what we're talking like 25 years. So prior to that, I had, um, five years on the East coast.

I taught. Um, no, I take it back. Right before I left for Sicily, I had two years here in California. Okay. Because Mark was stationed at Seal Beach. That's my husband. Oh, okay. And then prior to that, we met, um, on the internet in 19

Wes: 19, 5. No, it didn't even exist then.

Pamela: What? AOL in a chat room. What Uhhuh, so in 1995, and then I got married to him in 1996.

Wow. But during that transition, I was in my fourth year teaching on the lower East side of Manhattan, I taught Oh, wow. Um, a lot of language learners, a lot of, um, low So socioeconomic kids. Yeah. Kids that lived in, um, from place to place. Sometimes they were hunkering down in a building that was abandoned.

Wow. It was really interesting to [00:04:00] have the. This kind of relationship with the kids that I taught there. Yeah. Um, a lot of the kids were from Puerto Rico, from the Dominican Republic. Mm-hmm. Um, but it was really fun. It was very, very, um, fulfilling. Mm-hmm. And I loved it. And I probably would've never left New York.

I'm a born and raised New Yorker, but I did meet Mark and I did ask him to wait a year, so 1995 to 96. Yeah. Um, I told him my mother would never speak to him if he pulled me out. But I transferred and I loved every minute and I've, I've loved all 31 of my years educating. I still Oh wow. Love

what

Wes: I do. I, I, I sense a theme because you said you never would've left Italy if it were not for you never would've left, uh, New York if it were not for you.

Seem like you're just happy wherever you are, just full of life.

Pamela: I do, I do. I love that. Yes. Oh, that's awesome. And I love to travel and I love to teach. Um, They're like my passions.

Wes: Yeah. That's awesome. W tell [00:05:00] me, um, one thing, the New York school system is the biggest in the country, probably. Uh, it's

Pamela: what, what's that Like?

Outrageous. Yeah. It's unbelievably enormous. So like here we have the district office. It's accessible, right? You can come, you can like talk to the superintendent. Yeah. I don't think I've. Ever seen the New York superintendent from the four years that I was there? Yeah. Um, I did go visit the district office.

Mm-hmm. It was in, um, Brooklyn, and it was this enormous like, you know, 15 to 20 story building with Wow. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of offices in it. Um, they had every different, um, section in there. Yeah. Um, and they pretty much took care of five boroughs. They took care of Staten Island, Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, and um, the Bronx.

Oh my gosh. So it's

Wes: enormous. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me of Italy and New York, cuz we'll probably come back to Fullerton for most of the conversations. [00:06:00] Mm-hmm. Tell me about those two places. Things that, like, I would imagine the school district system in Italy was smaller. Uh, New York was bigger. Tell me one, uh, good thing about each.

Pamela: Okay, so actually the, the. The government runs the district in Sicily. Okay. So when they run all the American government? Yes. Okay. So it's called the Department of Defense Education Schools DoDEA. Okay. And you have to apply to that and you can, um, like if I was a single woman, I would've loved to have, um, just let them put me wherever they want.

So a lot of people. Joined DoDEA and they have to fill out an application and then pretty much your application gets pulled and you get told where you're gonna go. So you could go to Okinawa, you can go to Germany, you can go to Italy, you can go to England. I mean, there's tons of bases all over the world.

Sorry. And then, um, but for me, because I was a military wife, I had to wait until I [00:07:00] arrived there and apply at the school site. Mm-hmm. And then, so I had it, it was kind of, Like, I guess how you would be if you were a, maybe a temporary teacher here mm-hmm. Or probationary. Um, and then if I had gone to another location, that would've been, um, where I would've been more engrossed in their system.

Um, but I loved being able to teach on the, um, in a place that was so absolutely gorgeous. We lived on the economy. I learned Italian fluently while I was there. Wow. Wow. Um, we learned lots of, um, great ways to cook and to just be with people. The Sicilians are the most loveliest of people. Yeah. They are so friendly.

Wes: Now we have a quote from, um, Kyle Ruiz. Who says, uh, she gives you props for your vast knowledge of ancient history. Ah. Did being in Italy ever like coincide with teaching [00:08:00] Roman history? Absolutely. So tell me a little bit about that.

Pamela: And I would say that my, my love of ancient history probably started with me living in New York City because I had access to, um, a a million.

Well, that's an exaggeration. A million museums. And um, in fact, I used to just take my class onto the subway and go up to the museum of what, the Metropolitan Museum and I would teach my, um, Egyptian studies or my Greek studies Yeah. Right in the museum. And they would have no problem with that. We would be able to like show them the Temple of Dandora and all of that.

So then when I went. Overseas and I lived in Italy. Um, I amassed a huge collection of knowledge and regalia, um, realia that I was able to bring back with me. Mm-hmm. And it's part of my teaching, so I got to visit Rome and yeah. Um, England and, um, I never did make it to [00:09:00] Israel or to, um, I would've loved to have gone to one of the Arabian St, you know, states.

Yeah. Or you know, like Iraq or Iran. But you know, there was just too much conflict. Yeah. Because there's so much old history there. Right. But Germany, I was able to see a lot of the history there. Yeah. Um, we traveled all over. It was so easy. Yeah. You would just pop on a plane and it was like an $80 flight and you could go wherever.

Oh, wow. That's so amazing. A

Wes: little different than living here. Um, I, I was just reading a book, um, the biography, it, I don't know if it's a biography, but David Gro, the Foo Fighters. Oh, singers.

Pamela: Oh yeah, I have that book. I

Wes: haven't listened to it yet. Oh, it's, it's amazing. And he talks about as early as they would fly to, to Amsterdam.

And kind of do a European tour for a bunch of weeks, but it was like 80 bucks to get there. Yeah. And then you just, everything was so close. So I, there's another quote. Um, it's, live music is a passion of yours. Oh my gosh. And that's why I dropped in the, uh, reference to the David Grohl book. I love

Pamela: the Foo Fighters.

I've seen them a, I've seen them once. I've never seen them. Um, but I am a [00:10:00] huge, um, jam band fan. Okay. So for years I was was a fan like fish or? Well, I like fish. Okay. But not my favorite, but I love fish. Tell me your favorites. Um, my favorite was great. I was a great deadhead. Okay. So I followed the Grateful Dead when I was younger, and then as I got older, I loved like the Almond Brothers.

And oh my gosh, now I'm obsessed with, um, and I've, I have been for like, the last 30 years, Dave Matthews Band. Okay. But. Since my son has been older in the last I guess 10 years I've been, I've been seeing a lot of concerts. Like I must, my gosh, go to anywhere between five to 10 a year. Oh my gosh,

Wes: that's awesome.

Pamela: For just to

Wes: see them. Okay, so post Covid favorite concert.

Pamela: What's, what's, oh, um, my girlfriend and I, we went to, um, this last summer we visited, um, a whole bunch of cities, but three of them, um, let's see, what was it? It was, um, Houston. Mm-hmm. And then we were in. Oh gosh. [00:11:00] I'm thinking of, um, Florida West Palm Beach and then, um, back here in San Diego.

All three or four of those shows we were in the pit and we were right on the rail. And who are you you seeing? Dave Matthews Band. Oh. I'm telling you, I'm obsessed. So we were right there on the rail. Wow. Like he was right in front of me. Yeah. It was the best. It was so much

Wes: fun. So this is the quote from Kyle, uh, Ruiz.

She wrote in caps, Dave Matthews. That is all you need to know. I'm a little obsessed. She loves him and goes to multiple concerts a year. Very true. So if you could pick an adjective or two to describe what it is about his music or him personally, his persona, what, what is it that appeals so much to

Pamela: you?

So I really enjoy being in a live venue where everyone is just, Happy. It's like you go to your happy place, you're singing out loud, you're dancing for hours. You don't stop moving. [00:12:00] Um, people are friendly. People want to get to know you. It's, it's like a huge family. Yeah. And it's pretty addicting. Wow.

Because you want that feeling over and over again. So it's really

Wes: fun. Now I'm gonna, I think I overheard when you were talking to Pablo when you got here, you said something about being into exercise and then you, you said dancing for hours and I thought like, I'm not gonna dance more than five minutes, but dancing for hours, you have to be doing a lot of exercise to keep up with that stuff.

What do you do for

Pamela: exercise? So I exercise every morning at. 5:00 AM Uh, I go to a gym that's about three minutes from my house. Uhhuh. It's more of, um, you know, they do, gosh, like I've a boot trained boot for them. It is like a boot camp. So you do different like muscle, muscle, um, work. Mm-hmm. Weights four days a week.

Yeah. And then, um, some cardio three days a week. Um, so. It's really fun and I, I've been doing it now for about seven years. Okay. At this particular gym. Prior to that I did a lot of [00:13:00] yoga. I run. Yeah. Um, but this year has been, um, particularly good cuz I've Good. I feel like I had to keep up my stamina to go to all

Wes: these shows.

Let's, all right. So let's take live music in your love of that and working out, which, I'm not gonna say you're obsessed, but that's dedication. Yes. At the very least. How do those benefit you as a teacher and how, or how do you, cuz they, they're such a big part of you, how do they come to your students because you can't like, The students are gonna know these things about you or benefit from absolutely.

Your energy or whatever. So, so on the

Pamela: time, on the, on the days that I exercise, my endorphins get kind of revved up. So I have the energy and at 57 years old, I need as much energy to, you know, handle, uh, 31 11 year olds. And I love sixth grade to pieces. They are so fun, they're so engaged. They, they. Keep me on my toes.

They challenge me every day as much as [00:14:00] I challenge them, I would hope. Um, and then, um, the music, I've always been musical for, you know, as long as I can remember. I mean, I, I sung in choir from the time I was a young girl. I was in musical theater all through high school. I did, um, Uh, assistant directing in, um, musical theater all, all the whole time I was in Sicily.

And then I always love being the, you know, the helper first stage here at her. At, in, that's right. In fsd. Yeah. So I do have, um, A lot of musical background and I, I sing all day in my classroom. What, I mean, I'm always breaking out into song. I always have different songs and the kids are always like, what's that?

Are you making

Wes: these songs up or are you you singing

Pamela: songs? No, it's, it's usually something that the kids will say that will lead me to like, I don't know, a Billy Joel song. A Bruce Springsteen song. I mean, something in my repertoire that I, I remember. That's great. So it's super fun and it, and you know, they.

They love when I geek out [00:15:00] on them. And

Wes: then they're gonna pick up bits of pop culture. Yes. That they wouldn't know Absolut otherwise. Absolutely. Do you have a, a song you think you sing more than the others in the classrooms? Like something they would know? Uh, uh. Cause it's just a, a, a reference. I

Pamela: can't pull one outta my head right now, but, uh, there probably is one that if comes up, if they would.

Probably,

Wes: probably. That's great. That's fantastic. Okay, so I didn't know you're involved in stage, but I I do have a note here. That you, um, run the Speech and debate program? Oh yeah. And tell me a little bit, Kyle has a note here about why. But what's your why prefer being involved with speech? Why

Pamela: I love it.

Mm-hmm. Oh, well, well at first it was, you know, I, a lot of the kids in the school really wanted it and there wasn't anybody stepping up. Mm-hmm. So, a lot of times when we have small schools, we don't wanna give up these fantastic things that happen. So, um, it's really important to me that our kids get [00:16:00] the, uh, benefit of a lot of these things that the district offers.

Um, it's really. Very challenging, but I also love. Speaking and I love, um, being outgoing and being able to help these kids to become better, um, communicators and, um, speakers. It's really fun. Yeah. And a lot of them that come in are some of the shyer ones, so, and they end up the year being so much more outgoing and able to.

You know, speak their

Wes: mind. And what grades is? Uh, speech and debate

Pamela: at Hermosa? It is fourth through sixth. Fourth, fifth, and

Wes: sixth. Right. Okay. Do you have a particular student or performance that stands out to you as something you've seen where a student did something that was kind of surprising or just something you're proud of them seeing?

Um,

Pamela: Well, right now, I wanna say my biggest surprise is I have one of my sped kiddos who joined Speech and Debate. Um, he is, [00:17:00] uh, has an autistic diagnosis and he is speaking an autistic speech from the Advantage. Um, so it's very, um, it's very interesting to hear him. It's not, he didn't write it. Mm-hmm. It's somebody else's writing.

Yeah. It's an interpretation about being. Autistic. Yeah. But he has pretty much almost memorized the whole thing. Wow. And he is ready to kind of get that acting on. Yeah. And I've just been so floored by him. He's, he's been. Incredible. Yeah.

Wes: Wow, that's awesome. And,

Pamela: and then last year I had a lot of, um, top district, uh, superstars on my team.

Um, this year it's been a lot of little quieter, but cuz they've all gone to seventh grade, but it was kind of fun seeing the energy that they had.

Wes: Yeah. I had, I was gonna connect that. Um, well, Kyle's uh, Rui, uh, Ruiz's reason. That you support the program [00:18:00] is because you saw the impact it made on the students.

That was, that was her quote. Oh, that is true. Yeah. And then, so there was another quote, and I'm not sure it was from Kyle. Let me look over here in my notes, Caroline. But it was about, yeah, about, um, mainstreaming. And so let me see. Let me put my glasses on. Um, oh, it was actually from Kyle sh she says, um, as a sixth grade team, we had to fight over who would be lucky, the lucky teacher to get mainstreaming.

Hermosa has a big heart for mainstreaming, and Pamela is part of the core teachers who push for this. So she talks about you creating scaffolds and modifying the curriculum so that all students can participate. So it's interesting that the student, uh, who's doing the speech, the autism speech, um, that made me think of this quote.

And so, What is it that you see the benefit of mainstreaming, or what do you see happening when, when we do that?

Pamela: Well, you know, all, all students deserve an [00:19:00] equitable education. They all are. It's really important that. They get the sixth grade curriculum just like everyone else. Um, so when I, when I have the, in the past when I had the ability to have the kids come in from the special ed, um, self-contained classroom, um, it just, Tickled me.

I was, I loved, um, being able to help them and to be able to teach them and to be able to collaborate with the special ed teacher. I don't have a special ed background, but now after 20 years of mainstreaming. Mm-hmm. Wow. I feel like I've learned a tremendous amount about kids with ne special needs. Um, and this year I've been lucky enough to be part of the co-teach program.

So, um, it's my first time and I gotta say it is, Probably the highlight of my career.

Wes: Describe the co-teach program for people who are not

Pamela: familiar. So I have a class that is, uh, two-thirds regular [00:20:00] education, one-third kids on IEPs. I have a special ed teacher plus some support staff, instructional aids that work in the classroom.

They learn. All at the same time. Mm-hmm. And then we just scaffolded how they show their work. Mm. So they're getting everything that the sixth grade curriculum can give them as, and me as a teacher. And then from there we figure out, you know, what needs can we provide that'll get them to give us what we, what we are asking for.

Right? Right. So we start with super high expectations. Mm-hmm. And they are stepping up. I have never seen a group of kids more engaged and more willing to try hard things. Mm-hmm.

Wes: That's awesome. Yeah. That's really exciting. It's, it's powerful. Yeah. And what happens when, because. Um, a lot of times we're, we're told like, being special ed is, it's confidential.

Um, but I, I heard a [00:21:00] quote from, uh, somebody who's reflecting on, I think it was Viola Davis's book, um, where she was talking about like, certain students were, you know, in special ed, but they're not supposed to be known. But everybody knows when you get called out for a special reason. Right. Um, but so what happens when the students who are um, The regular ed population are both, you know, side by side, included in this mainstream model.

What do you think happens to their empathy or awareness or what do you see? That's a great

Pamela: question because I know that I have seen other classes, um, in other schools where, They don't have the empathy for it, they it, they're kept separate. So then it really stays separate. They don't make any kinds of connections.

I see that even in the GATE programs, the gifted and talented programs, because a lot of times if they're just working with their gifted [00:22:00] program kids and grade levels and not really kind of connecting with regular education, there tends to be that disconnect. So, What I've noticed at Hermosa, which is really beautiful, is that because we've always had a special ed community, the kids all respect the diversity.

Mm-hmm. That we have very little teasing or, um, negativity mm-hmm. That goes on even on our site. Yeah. Um, what's beautiful about the co-teach program is that from the beginning, this particular group has been together since. Third grade, that's problematic in itself because we ha we are a small school, so we don't, they don't get to move away from this one group.

Mm-hmm. But I gotta tell you, they love each other. Mm-hmm. They have come up third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade. They help each other, they support each other. They understand that they, you know, that everybody is a little bit different and everybody has a different way that they, they. Get their education.

Wes: Right. [00:23:00] Right. So what stands out to me is you, you've talked about Italy, uh, you talked about New York, um, but you just said maybe the most special experience of your career was co-teaching this year. That's pretty amazing. Like when, I mean, you have a diverse, uh, set of experiences in the classroom, so that's something to really reflect on.

That's powerful. Um, it's been beautiful. There's a couple of quotes. These are from Caroline Lewellen, the principal at Hermosa, and she has a couple of words that we haven't touched on yet. So one, I'm gonna say, um, Hermosa drives garden. What?

Pamela: Um, tell me about, so I think she's the garden. Talking about the reading garden.

Is she talking about the reading garden? Cause we have two gardens innovation

Wes: experience last year.

Pamela: Oh. Oh, that's the garden. Garden. So, so I think she's, tell me about the both gardens. Right. So, um, She is talking about when we went to the FSD Fest. Okay. Um, I kind of was the lead. [00:24:00] Okay. That kind of held together.

They had an innovation and um, um, Ms. Roble, who's our speech and language, okay. She does a gardening club. Oh. Every. Every week, I think one or two times a week. Yeah. So we presented about how we, um, oh, fabulous. We grow food and then the food goes to our nutrition services and we're able to provide it to the kids.

Oh. So we've done that a couple of times. So that's, that's really cool.

Wes: Okay. And

Pamela: was there another garden? So, um, about 21 years ago when we first started, Hermosa had a different focus. Yeah. Now it's fitness focus. Yeah. Right. And health. Um, but years ago it was community service. Mm-hmm. So one of my community services was I built a reading garden.

Across from my room in the back. Okay. It has the white fence around it. It has benches. And we had, um, the friends community church came in and they provided all the lumber and the tools. Wow. And my first class, 21 years ago, Built that garden. Oh, wow. And then each subsequent [00:25:00] year we took care of it and we provided for like re replacing the Yeah.

Ro uh, whatever they're called, the things on the fence. Yeah. Or the benches that needed to be resub cemented. So we take, we keep the upkeep and that is really used. Yeah. It's the kids love it. Oh, that's awesome. Just a place to get out of the sun. Yeah. So it's fun. Oh, that's awesome. And reading is kind of my thing.

Oh, okay. So, You know, language arts and reading, and I'm, uh, that's one of the ways I really connect with a lot of my kids. Mm-hmm. I do. Um, Reading books or book clubs. I always have, um, a quite a few novels that I cover, of course, of the year. Yeah. And I am a huge reader at home too.

Wes: Oh, that's great. Tell me one of the books that you've seen kids really gravitate towards in the last year or two.

Or are there certain titles that they're really,

Pamela: well, we've been teaching, um, the Lightning Thief and we've been able to cover, um, a lot of our standards through it, and they love it. They are so engaged. Anything about. The [00:26:00] Greek gods and goddesses, they just, they love. And that

Wes: ties back into that passion for ancient history that you

Pamela: Exactly.

And it's all about the Greek nice gods. And then you have

Wes: that book

Pamela: to deliver it Uhhuh and you know, um, Olympus is at the top of the, you know, empire State Building in the boat book. So I get a little bit of the New York and a little bit of the la

Wes: Oh, that's great. Um, tell me about, the other word that I was gonna, um, mention is that Caroline Loun drops in here is eSport.

Um,

Pamela: tell me about, that's been so much fun. Tell me about it. I'm really out of my wheelhouse. Okay. So I've never been a video game person and my kid who's 21, he loves video games. Okay. So he played all when he was lower l um, little. And I used to watch him play and I was like, eh, cuz I'd rather read. Right.

Right. So I'm a reader. Yeah. Um, I'd probably read three to four books a week. Oh my God. I know.

Wes: I can't even

Pamela: imagine. Well, I, you know, I go home, I read, yeah. I wake up in the morning, I get up early. I don't [00:27:00] sleep very much anymore. The older you get, you don't really sleep very much. So I like to read, but um, when someone needed an eSports coach, and again, people weren't, you know, it was hard.

People were asked, you know, small school were asked to do a lot. Yeah. I didn't want them to lose out, so I figured I'd do a lunch club and, um, I always had someone who was there to help me. Like my first partner was Cindy Wilson, who I missed terribly. She retired. Mm-hmm. And then my next partner was, um, oh, I did it last year with my student teacher and she was awesome.

And then this year, um, I have Daryl's. Um, Santos from, um, I think she was at Fern Drive. Right? Right. So she, she's been super fun and it just is like hilarious to watch them. And last year I actually had one of the winning kids. Oh, wow. So that was really exciting. Oh, that's great. He won the VERSES tournament and he was a, that's fifth grader.

So that was really fun. Wow.

Wes: [00:28:00] So it, you mentioned your son. In being into video games and you're not, and sort of watching from that lens, that was actually one of Caroline Lewellen's quotes that she included is that you love your son and he's graduating college with honors and you love spending time with him.

Yes. So, uh, tell me a little bit about

Pamela: him. He's the best. Oh, he's, he's the best. He is. He's, and he's grown up so much. He's, he's really matured. Four years of college Really? Does Yeah. Make a difference? Yeah. Oh my gosh. He's like a different human being. Wow. Um, we can hang, we can chat. Oh, nice. Um, we talk books.

You know, he, he is more of a listener now than he ever was. Mm-hmm. Uh, but he's more into the mechanics of Steph, so, Very often, he and Mark have conversations that my, mark's my husband that I don't even understand. They're talking tools that are talking mechanics. So he's studying to be a mechanical engineer.

Wow. He's got one more semester, thank goodness. Yeah. Um, one more, almost there. One more payment, which is beautiful. Yeah. Um, and, uh, [00:29:00] yeah. And he'll probably end up staying in Montana. He thinks if he gets Oh, he's in, if he gets Montana, he gets a job there. Wow. Yeah. He goes to Montana State University. Oh, wow.

Wes: What, uh, drew him to that? Was it the, the program or the Yes,

Pamela: the program. Wow. So we went and visited quite a bit of schools. Um, we looked at Wyoming. Okay. And that had a great program. We looked at Colorado Springs and a couple of other, the Colorado universities, universities, Boulder. Um, There was a tech one that's further north in Colorado.

Yeah. We visited the west coast, like Vancouver all the way down. But, um, he loved this program. He liked the whole research and development. Yeah. And that's been really fun for him.

Wes: Wow. That's awesome. Was that a big adjustment? Uh, culturally, Montana sounds not very populated compared to Southern California.

Which is

Pamela: not for him. No, he's he's pretty introverted. Okay. So it fit right. It was right up his alley. He loved it. That's perfect.

Wes: That's perfect. Um, one of the other things that Caroline, um, did mention is that you are [00:30:00] supportive of new teachers. You cheer on the new teachers, you support them in their journey.

What is some advice you might give to somebody who's, you know, like you mentioned, having a, a student teacher, I think, uh, somebody who's just getting into teaching. What is something that you could. Offer up that you think would help them, you know, find their path or, you know, maybe just learn the ropes?

What do you

Pamela: Well, it has to be fun. There has to be passion. You have to kind of find what drives you and the kids. It's really about relationships and over the 31 years that I've taught mm-hmm. You know, I remember. So much about, um, the kids that I've worked with. I mean, I don't remember all 31 every year.

That would be impossible, but there's always these kids that I've made connections with each year that I know that I've made an impact. And it's always been pretty powerful to, to hear it back, to have some one of these kids reach out, write me a [00:31:00] letter, send me an email. It's always beautiful thing. So I know that I build those relationships.

And that's where the power is. So building relationships is number one. Number two is I think, Would be to really find your way to be creative. Mm-hmm. That, that we're given curriculum and we're given standards, but it's up to me to design a curriculum that's engaging not only for them, but for me. Because if you are just doing the rote, you know, This page and mm-hmm.

Do this thing next and yeah, go move on to the next thing. You know, there has to be some kind of fun, like you have to, you know, break out into song every now and then, or dance around the room or wear jingly earrings. You know, it, it's really about having a good time and I love going to work every day.

Wes: That's [00:32:00] great. Well, we are about at time, and I just love your, your passion, your enthusiasm, the energy you bring. Thank you. And I think your, your students and your school community are so lucky and it's, it's clear from the quotes from Kyle and Caroline that. They really appreciate that energy as

Pamela: well.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Wes: This has been the Teacher Interview podcast. Thank you for joining us.