Pam Keller podcast transcript

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Intro: Welcome to the Teacher Interview Podcast. I’m your host, Wes Kriesel. I work as Director of Innovation and Instructional Support in Fullerton School District, and every week we sit down and get to know a teacher better. My goal is to learn what drives and guides teachers, especially when venturing into that risky territory of trying something new. Join me. In this episode, we talk to Pam Keller. She teaches in the Multiage program at Orangethorpe Elementary.

Wes Kriesel: All right.

Pam Keller: Okay.

Wes Kriesel: Well, Pam, here we are.

Pam Keller: Hi!

Wes Kriesel: So, today, we’re going to talk to you about your journey into teaching, but also we’re going to talk to you about some quotes that people sent us—you gave us three names—and we’re going to try to see if any of those, we can tie them into innovation and risk-taking, and if we can, great, and if we can’t, no big deal. But, I find that every conversation that we go into depth with a teacher, usually it comes, I mean, [00:01:18 unintelligible] we talk about like sort of making a way out of no way or like coming up with something you haven’t done before or trying something. So, I’m looking forward to that, and then—we started this last time when we interviewed Sarah Spero—I’m going to ask for a bonus feedback, which is like, what do you think we could do to make the podcast better?

Pam Keller: Okay.

Wes Kriesel: And so, Sarah Spero, her advice was, “Don’t focus on innovation. Focus on what,” I think it was like, “what makes teachers lifelong learners,” and the idea of learning as the key, the joy of learning.

Pam Keller: As you’re going along, yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah. She referenced a book that she was really inspired by, and so I thought that was cool. So, I thought in that same tradition [00:02:04 unintelligible] say, yeah, anything, and it could be somebody to interview, “Well, you should interview so and so,” or it could just be like, “Why don’t you try this new recipe for the podcast?”

Pam Keller: Okay.

Wes Kriesel: So, I thought that a good tradition to kind of keep is to ask people for feedback. Okay, so where did your teaching journey start? Tell us about that.

Pam Keller: Ah! So, I loved preschoolers. I mean, I guess you could go back to that childhood thing where we all played teacher in the garage. My parents put a little chalkboard on the back of the garage, and so you could sit in there and I used to play…

Wes Kriesel: So, you had a chalkboard in the garage?

Pam Keller: Yeah, it was on the door, the door that went up and down, and then we had a little couch and we would play school. On Sunday, I played Sunday school. I had this big red hymnal because I was in the choir, so I would play Sunday school and I’d be like the choir teacher and all that.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool.

Pam Keller: So, that was super-fun. Even before that, we taught my little sister how to read in my friend’s garage. So yeah, that was super-fun.

Wes Kriesel: You taught reading?

Pam Keller: Yeah. She was 4 and I was 5 and my friend was 9, and we taught my sister how to read in the garage with these little books.

Wes Kriesel: That’s awesome. That’s awesome.

Pam Keller: So yeah, it was fun. So, I think I always did that, but I loved preschoolers. And I come from a family of entrepreneurs, so I really wanted to own a preschool. That was my goal. I wanted to own a preschool.

Wes Kriesel: Oh wow, that’s cool. Yeah.

Pam Keller: And so…

Wes Kriesel: Go back a little bit. Family of entrepreneurs, was that a doughnut shop? Is that inventing things?

Pam Keller: Oh, even better than a doughnut shop.

Wes Kriesel: I don’t know.

Pam Keller: Doughnut shops are fun, though. It was interesting, my father was a firefighter when I was a little girl. So, firefighters have that extra time. They work long days, but then they have an amount of time off. And my dad and his very best friend from junior high decided they wanted to open a liquor store, and so they actually had [00:04:01 lottery] to get the liquor license because they’re very expensive. So, they let new ones out, so they got it for reduced costs.

Wes Kriesel: Really? Okay.

Pam Keller: And they, out of the 13 people that got them that day, they got the 13th liquor license. So, when I was little, I remember on Christmas Day we were literally stocking the shelves of the store.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, really?

Pam Keller: It’s in La Palma on Orangethorpe.

Wes Kriesel: It’s still there?

Pam Keller: Uh-huh.

Wes Kriesel: Okay.

Wes Kriesel: And, we [00:04:24 unintelligible]. It’s called Granada Liquor. So, we were stocking the shelves to get open before the end of the year so it could be taxed, something good with taxes, right?

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pam Keller: So, he would be a firefighter on Monday and he’d be a liquor store owner the next day, then a firefighter, then a liquor store owner. So, not only that, but they had a deli, a very good deli, and a beautiful wine room, because in those days they didn’t sell liquor in grocery stores yet, right?

Wes Kriesel: Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Pam Keller: So, that liquor store was the spot to go.

Wes Kriesel: It was the spot, yeah.

Pam Keller: So, that was my first job. I worked in the deli and I was only allowed to work on Sunday if my dad or my dad’s partner, who was kind of like an uncle, was there, because they didn’t think it was a safe place for a 16-year-old to be.

Wes Kriesel: Did you like working?

Pam Keller: I loved working there.

Wes Kriesel: Did you?

Pam Keller: I got paid cash every Friday. I was rich. I was so rich, yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Yes. Yeah.

Pam Keller: It was really cool. So, my dad had that and it did so well that at one point he stopped being a firefighter.

Wes Kriesel: Really?

Pam Keller: Yeah, it was a very awesome business. And so, he moved on from there, and then my parents when I was in junior high opened a travel agency kind of over by, near Parks Junior High, Euclid and Rosecrans.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Okay.

Pam Keller: So, they had a travel agency, so I did a lot of work for them, too, like making phone calls. It was before computers, right?

Wes Kriesel: Right, yeah.

Pam Keller: So, I did a lot of work in there for them and we used to take these awesome fam trips.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, that’s cool.

Pam Keller: Yeah, super-fun. So, they did a lot of that. My mom had one of those like plant-lady businesses that’s like Tupperware but it’s plants, and we had a greenhouse in the backyard and they would do house parties.

Wes Kriesel: Really?

Pam Keller: Yeah. So, we my family always had that kind of stuff.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool.

Pam Keller: So, I wanted to be one, too, and I just wanted to open my own preschool. So, that was my goal. So, that’s what I started doing and I was working in preschool. But, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a preschool teacher’s salary, but they’re really, really low. They’re really extremely low, which is unfortunate because that’s really the most important years for kids.

Wes Kriesel: Right. Right.

Pam Keller: It’s really, really—that foundation is so important. So, the money wasn’t really there, but at one point…

Wes Kriesel: And so, the credentialing process, it’s like a certain number of hours in early childhood education.

Pam Keller: Yeah. Yes, now you have to have a certain amount of hours. If you’re going to be in different place…

Wes Kriesel: Okay. So, it was not a very high bar. You could do some hours and start working.

Pam Keller: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Wes Kriesel: So, is that where you were, just working at a preschool, teaching?

Pam Keller: Yes, I was doing that. I can’t remember where exactly I was working at the moment but Sharon Quirk-Silva, if you know her…

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah.

Pam Keller: We were friends since high school. She was teaching like maybe her first or second year at Golden Hill, and she called and she said, “There’s an opening in the preschool. Call them up.”

Wes Kriesel: Oh, really?

Pam Keller: So, I called them up, and Shirley Jordan was at Maple; I went to her. In those days, it was all very loosey-goosey, and I went in her office and I have this awesome little interview and found out her husband was my principal in fourth grade at Ford school and it was all awesome. And then, she said, “Okay, well, I don’t have preschool job. I have this latchkey job,” and it was May. It was May. And so, she hired me, literally, I think, to clean out a classroom of an after-school program, the latchkey program at Richmond school.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, wow.

Pam Keller: So, that’s how I started in the district 30 years ago. About 30 years ago, yeah. So, I was doing that, and then I really, you know, after-school, wasn’t my gig. I suffered through it. I love the kids, I love the families, but it was like being the old woman in the shoe. I was at Sunset Lane with Sue Faassen, who’s awesome, and I had kindergarten through sixth-graders. And I had a couple of amazing aides, assistants that they were old women in the shoe with me, and we were in a portable with no water but we used to cook. And you can get food from the federal government, so we’d get like honey and peanut butter and dried milk and we’d make those peanut butter balls. We did cooking. We had a great time. We had a lot of fun.

Wes Kriesel: With no water.

Pam Keller: With no water. We’d have to run to the office. And so, it was super-crazy.

Wes Kriesel: Oh my gosh.

Pam Keller: But, that’s how I started in the district, and then a Head Start opening came open and I really wanted it, and I didn’t get the first one because I was a bilingual, but then I got the second one. So, I was at Maple teaching Head Start under Harriet Herman at that time, and Harriet was really encouraging me to go get my credential. And I said, “But, I don’t want to do that.” But, she bugged me and bugged me, so I went and took the clear credential.

Wes Kriesel: Good for her.

Pam Keller: Yeah. I took the clear credential classes just in case. And then, after the deadline, they announced this wonderful new intern program, the very first one at Cal State Fullerton. So, I called them up. I’m like, “You can’t announce a program after a deadline. You’ve got to let me apply.” And they were like, “Okay, you have a week.” So, Harriet helped me, “Okay, you need to do this, you need to do that,” got all the paperwork, helped me figure out who to go to get this and that, and I applied and I get in this program. But by then, it was full, so they stuck me in the bilingual block. But, then I said, “Well, I’m not bilingual.” They’re like, “Oh, you work with Spanish-speaking children. You’ll be fine. It’ll be great.” So, I get there and I find out that it’s a year-and-a-half program and if you want a bilingual credential you could get one, but you have to pass all these tests. I needed to pass a reading and writing and a speaking test. And I was speaking fluent French then because I took school French all the time and then I worked at Club Med for a year. So, I spoke fluent French. So, they said, “Take all the tests.” I took all the tests. I fail, fail. And then the oral, I answered everything in French, and the lady spoke French and she goes, “Oh, you answered everything in French!” So, at least I understood what she was saying. I just didn’t know how to answer in Spanish.

Wes Kriesel: Can I ask why you didn’t answer in English? You answered in French. That’s so great.

Pam Keller: Yeah, because…

Wes Kriesel: You’re like, “It’s a bilingual test. I’m going to give you French.”

Pam Keller: Yeah, right? So, French was closer to Spanish, so it worked.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. I love it. I love it.

Pam Keller: Yeah. So, it worked.

Wes Kriesel: And so, she was like, “Well, you understood me. Okay.”

Pam Keller: Yeah, “So you’re cool. You can make it. You just study.”

Wes Kriesel: That’s great.

Wes Kriesel: So, I got [00:10:17 unintelligible] student teacher at Richmond under a sweet darling teacher, but I’ll tell you, I had been teaching preschool. So, I had my own classrooms, I did bulletin boards, I did lesson plans, all that stuff. So, I was experienced in some ways, but not others. And so, I go in this class of a teacher, it’s her 30th year, her last spring semester and she’s going to retire, an old-school old school, the kind of that would hold the lesson plan book in her hand, or maybe she didn’t but she made me do it. It was very hard for me because I’m not like that. And so, it was an okay experience, but I didn’t learn anything really new and innovative and exciting. So, I saw some of my fellow teachers, really innovative teachers that were learning all this cool stuff, and I was just kind of getting by. And then, we managed to get—La Habra actually hired us. Pat Puleo wanted to hire me at Golden Hill as an intern, but in those days we had an assistant superintendent that didn’t believe in interns, so she wouldn’t allow us to work here. So, we all went to La Habra and there was a bunch of us and we were all the bilingual teachers. So, I literally took Spanish 101 at night and my classes for my credential, and I taught all day in a fourth-grade class. Half the kids spoke English and half the kids spoke Spanish, and I had my little lesson plan book with the Spanish book with the English underneath and then I’d go to class at nine and go, “Oh, that’s what that word means!” So, it was super-fun. It was super-crazy. I had a great time with the kids. Those kids were the class of 2000 and, I don’t know, I hope they all did well.

Wes Kriesel: Oh my gosh. I’m sure they did. I was just thinking, where are they now?

Pam Keller: I was enthusiastic and I tried hard.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Pam Keller: We did really fun things with them. We took the kids at all the bilingual classes, third, fourth and fifth grade, because we’re all interns from Cal State Fullerton—and we got paid, we were paid like teachers, but we didn’t have a full proper credential yet. We took them all to Cal State Fullerton to go see it because we thought students need to see the college so they can…

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Pam Keller: And they told us, “Oh, you don’t get a tour. You just come. Do your own tour. There’s no one to tour you.” So, we did, and we went in the library and they found a Diego Rivera painting on the wall and they were so excited, and we just like helped ourselves into classrooms. It was hilarious. We showed them the bowling alley and it was just…

Wes Kriesel: That’s great.

Pam Keller: We did lots of fun, you know, we made the ice cream, the [00:12:40 unintelligible] ice cream, with 150 kids and I don’t know how much ice we must have had.

Wes Kriesel: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Pam Keller: So, it was really fun, but…

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. That’s cool.

Pam Keller: Yeah, it was crazy, but I missed Fullerton. And Minard Duncan had a kindergarten opening and I applied for it, and I was so excited. And, actually, Sharon Quirk-Silva was teaching, she got hired first grade, so we both taught next to each other the next year. And that’s how I got back to Fullerton. I wanted back to Fullerton because it feels more like home to me.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, and you’ve been there ever since?

Pam Keller: Oh, yeah, been sort of kind of around ever since.

Wes Kriesel: Sort of kind of.

Pam Keller: I have a long history in Fullerton, not always in the classroom.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. Great.

Pam Keller: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Great. Do you want to talk about any of the other Fullerton history?

Pam Keller: Sure! You want me to go on, yeah?

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. What else have you done in Fullerton?

Pam Keller: Okay. So yeah, so I taught five years of kindergarten at Richmond. And just to go back to my credential, that year and a half, I did, I tried starting in the Spanish 200 class, but the first night I realized I didn’t belong there. I just didn’t. I needed the basics. But once I had the basics, honestly, because I was fluent in French, I could transfer a lot of it., but the sad story is I had to push all the French out of my head. I just didn’t have room for it. I put the Spanish in there and now the French is gone.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, no.

Pam Keller: I’m super-sad about it, but maybe if I go to Paris or something, I’ll get it back, right? Don’t you think?

Wes Kriesel: Oh yeah, for sure. It’ll come back.

Pam Keller: Yeah. So, I took all the tests and I passed them, and I got a bilingual credential.

Wes Kriesel: That’s awesome.

Pam Keller: So, I went to Richmond and, honestly, in La Habra, they paid us a stipend for being bilingual and it was a really nice amount of money, and I lost it by coming back to Fullerton because Fullerton didn’t pay for that. But, I was happier. I was at Richmond. I love Richmond.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool.

Pam Keller: Awesome. I love Minard Duncan, you know. I mean, how could you not want to work? Minard Duncan was my fifth-grade and sixth-grade principal as a child. So then, I worked for him.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool.

Pam Keller: Yeah, super-fun! And I loved my students at Richmond and the moms, and I always had a million moms and babies. In those days, no one cared if the baby stayed in the class. And we would have 2-year-olds; they’d have a journal, too. “Sit down and do your journal [00:14:53 2-year-olds.]

Wes Kriesel: Is this the start of multiage? Is that where it started?

Pam Keller: Yeah. Full-on start of multiage, yeah. And so, I loved it and, honestly, we taught in Spanish all day long, so my Spanish got really, really good. So, I am bilingual now thanks to students.

Wes Kriesel: Well, that’s actually a good place to bring in a quote because somebody that we interviewed ahead of time brought up being bilingual and also making a welcoming environment for parents. So I’m going to read you those quotes and just bounce this off of you.

Pam Keller: Okay.

Wes Kriesel: All right, so this is from Yolanda McComb, principal now at Raymond. And so, she said that you’re gifted, you’re extremely intelligent and intuitive, passionate, and a champion for all children and families. “She’s a crusader for the rights of children and their families. She uses her bilingual skills to really talk to parents and welcomes all parents into her classroom. Pam has always had an innate ability to provide a classroom environment where an amazing number of parents volunteer daily.” So, you talked about having younger brothers and sisters like, “Oh, just do the journal with us.” Talk about the role of parents in the classroom. What was that like? How did it come about that you’re inviting people in or what was your thinking or your approach? Or, what did you want to see or not see with these parents?

Pam Keller: Yeah, I think it just felt natural to me. I think, especially at Richmond, because I’m blonde and I was probably super-young then, I guess—I’m not so much anymore, but I was then—and so I think at first they were shocked when I would speak to them, like, “Oh, she can talk to us! How cool!” right?

Wes Kriesel:  Yeah, yeah.

Pam Keller: And I don’t know, I just felt like it’s a natural thing for parents to be in the classroom. And then, when I was welcoming, “It’s okay if your baby is here in the stroller,” and in those days there weren’t a lot of rules about that stuff that we had to follow. We didn’t have all those fingerprinting rules and all those TB rules.

Wes Kriesel: True, yeah.

Pam Keller: There are so many rules now but we didn’t have all that, and it was awesome because they helped a lot. And we found ways to make them feel welcome because a lot of the parents that we worked with then, honestly, hadn’t been able to go to school for a very long time in their life, the majority of them. And once I got to know them, a lot of them would share that. “I went to second grade and that was it.” “I went through third grade.” So, they didn’t even get to do the fun stuff. So, they actually really enjoyed it and were learning alongside their children, but we could also model for them how to work with their children so, when they went home, they could do it, too. And I still know a lot of the parents and, honestly, I know a lot of the students. One day a little girl Facebooked me and she didn’t have the same name as she did in kindergarten but her last name was the same as her mother’s, and she said, “Do you remember me?” And I said, “Yeah, I remember you,” and I took a picture of all the years of my composites from the classes, I took a picture of her little face, and I sent it to her. And she’s like, “Oh my gosh! How do you have that?” And I said, “Of course, I have that and, of course, I know you even though you don’t have the same name. Why don’t you have the same name?” right?

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Pam Keller: So, she was surprised. But, so I posted all five of those pictures and the tagging began. Boom, boom, boom! So, I probably have 40 or 50 of my students from those five years that are friends on Facebook and they’re all in their 30s and having children and trying to get along in life. And the cool thing that we talk about with all of them are they taught me to speak Spanish and I taught them to speak English. And so, we taught each other how to be bilingual, and so that’s really awesome. I love that.

Wes Kriesel: That is cool. I’m going to go back to a word you said. You used the word fun like with parents who had not necessarily gone to school—maybe they stopped at second grade—and so they didn’t get to do all the fun stuff.

Pam Keller: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: And I love that you talk about school as being the fun stuff.

Pam Keller: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: So, that was actually another quote that somebody dropped in here. I’m going to see if I can—I have to put my glasses on and look through my notes. Gosh, I thought it was Nancy.

Pam Keller: Nancy and I have fun, so I bet she said it.

Wes Kriesel: Okay, right? Right here. Okay. So, I’m going to read you the quote. So, it’s bonus feedback, “Anything else you want to tell me about Pam?” and she writes, “Oh my goodness! So much to say, ha ha. She’s super-fun and energetic. She always makes an effort to include everyone and everything. We laugh all the time.”

Pam Keller: Mm-hmm.

Wes Kriesel: So, tell me about, what do you think the role of fun is in the classroom and working with these parents in your approach?

Pam Keller: It has a super-important role because I know that it’s serious business to learn. Some teachers get so tied up in, “I have to teach this and I have to teach that.” I hear it all the time. “I have to teach phonics, and I can’t do art and science. I have to teach their phonics!” Well, honestly, our kids are learning their phonics and they’re doing art and science, and you can do it all at the same time. But, if you make it no fun and everything’s you’re sitting at a desk and you’re going, “Ah, ah, ah,” no one’s learning that. You’re never going to learn it, and you’re not going to leave with this—the kids, later, you don’t remember all those little lessons that someone taught you. You remember how your teachers and your fellow classmates and your parents made you feel. You remember if you felt loved. You remember if you felt safe and secure. You remember if you felt honored and that your voice counted. You’ll remember all those things. But, do you remember any of your specific lessons? Maybe a few of them, the really cool ones.

Pam Keller: Yeah.

Pam Keller: But yeah, so I think it’s really important. I mean, yeah, it has to be serious and, yeah, I’m a grumpy teacher, too, sometimes…

Wes Kriesel: Are you?

Pam Keller: Yeah, when the kids are loud and they’re not listening and you want them to sit on the carpet. I mean, we all have those days. But, they really just need to be a part of it in and feel the joy of learning.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, I think some concrete examples around like things that you would turn to to create fun moments. So, think about like, let’s say somebody that’s listening to the podcast and that’s maybe just not their outlook and they’re like, they’re so interested in your view. Or, let’s say they’re a new teacher, and sometimes when you’re a new teacher you’re worried about getting things right and being kind of perfect. So, what are some ways that you try to infuse fun? What’s a typical kind of Pam like, “Oh, we could…”

Pam Keller: Oh, you want to know our best one?

Wes Kriesel: Sure.

Pam Keller: Because it’s raining today, so you’re going to love this one.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Okay.

Pam Keller: So, it was a weekend and I always look at the forecast because like, “What’s going to happen this week?” and it was going to rain for four days – Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and every teacher knows that’s just hell. Four days of rain. No recess, no lunch. The first day, it’s cool, but after that it’s not cool anymore and no one’s happy, and you’re trying to entertain everyone. So, I sent a little email to my teaching partners. I’m like, “Hey, what do you think if we have a play-in-the-rain day? Wouldn’t that be fun?” Like, right? That’s fun. But, you have to make it educational, right? So, you’ve got to find a way to connect it. So, luckily, science and art and all of that is part of our life, and so we literally, during the week, we have our journals now at our school and we did a really cool rain art lesson in our art journals.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Yeah, tell me about it.

Pam Keller: I can remember how it looks. It’s just really—we painted the puddles and the raindrops. I think we did it with the white crayon and then we did just the blue. We had that liquid watercolor painted over it. So, we did that on one page and then the blank page next to it, so we left it blank. And then, we went out and we did rain poems and we read some rain books. So, we emailed all the parents and we said, “Hey, if it’s still raining on Thursday,” so Wednesday it was, “if it’s still raining, send a change of clothes. We’re going to play in the rain.”

Wes Kriesel: Oh my gosh. No, you didn’t. No way.

Pam Keller: Mm-hmm. So, the kids knew we were playing in the rain. They bring all their stuff.

Wes Kriesel: They’re like praying for rain.

Pam Keller: So, we don’t want to play in the rain in the morning because then we’re going to be soppy, gross, wet all day, right?

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah.

Pam Keller: So, we’re going to play in the afternoon. So, it is pouring. It’s cats and dogs pouring in the morning and we’re like, “Oh, it looks really fun,” and the kids are like, “We’re going to go play in the rain!” We’re like, “Not yet. The afternoon.”

Wes Kriesel: Wait for it.

Pam Keller: And we’re watching the weatherman, and that weatherman, I don’t know how they get paid because they’re never right, and it’s changing by the minute or flipping out, like, “Oh my gosh, it’s not going to rain when we need it to rain!” So, we kind of are sitting there after lunch and we’re looking out at the rain and we’re like, “Oh, it’s not going to rain.” So, we do a lesson, I can’t remember. We had a plan what we were going to do. So, we do our lesson of whatever we’re doing, and then we go, “We just got to go out,” and it’s just barely drizzling. Barely Drizzling. I’m like, “Okay, guys!”” And there are huge puddles everywhere. That’s the good news.

Wes Kriesel: Of course, of course.

Pam Keller: Outside of our classroom there’s a lake. So, “We’re going to go play in the rain! Look, it’s raining!” and they’re like, “Yeah, that looks like great rain, Mrs. Keller.” So, we go and we decide we’re going to go out the backdoor, and we have a little stoop and they’re going to jump off into the lake.

Wes Kriesel: Oh my gosh.

Pam Keller: So, we jumped and we videotaped them jumping into the lake, and they were so happy and then they’re sloshing through. And other teachers are looking at us, “What are you doing? Why are you doing this?” And we’re like, “We have permission!” “Do the parents know?” We’re like, “Yes, they know!” So, as soon as all of us get out there, it starts pouring, but I mean pouring, pouring, pouring.

Wes Kriesel: Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah.

Pam Keller: And we’re out on the blacktop and there are giant puddles, and kids are doing cartwheels and cuddles. They’re laying in puddles. They’re twirling their umbrellas because somehow their umbrellas are twirling, their umbrellas. I mean, they were sopping wet. They were jumping for joy. We just had the best time. We played and played and played, and then we went back and our classroom was sopping, sopping wet. And then, we had put hot chocolate in our crockpots and we had marshmallows. So yeah, we had…

Wes Kriesel: Oh. So, that’s genius right there.

Pam Keller: Uh-huh. So, we have that. We have one boy who can’t have dairy, so we brought a special thing for him, and I think his mom brought it, whatever he could drink in his old thermos, and no one got left out.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. It’s so interesting.

Pam Keller: It was super-fun. So then, after that, the next day they had to go back to their art journal and they had to write a reflection. So, they either had to write—so we went over the different kinds of things. You could just free-write, and I showed them how you could write. You could write, “Drip, drop,” and make it look like a raindrop, and you can make a puddle and you can write, “Splash, splash, splash, splash.” So, we talked about all the different ways. So, everybody did really very innovative, creative reflections because they really liked it so much. And now, every time it rains, they ask us, “Can we go in the rain?” I’m like, “We didn’t bring our change of clothes.”

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. It seems like you got them so, I mean literally, immersed, but I mean you got them so into the moment that then when you do the reflection piece, it’s so rich because…

Pam Keller: Yes, it wasn’t hard to get it out of them at all.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah, and even if they don’t have the words, they have the emotion and they were really connected to that experience and they want to write, which is amazing.

Pam Keller: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: There’s something else you did that I just find fascinating, which is that kind of, like they almost feel like they’re doing something you’re not supposed to do at school.

Pam Keller: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: And so, I wonder like, is that atypical? I’ve talked to other people, I interviewed them, and that’s part of how they make magic in the classroom. So, talk to me about that. Is that something you draw upon or how do you use that…?

Pam Keller: Yeah, probably we do.

Wes Kriesel: Okay. You don’t want to admit it.

Pam Keller: I have like a little joke. I’m like, “Tell me the rules so I can break it.”

Wes Kriesel: Okay.

Pam Keller: If I’m really worried, then I check in with [00:31:54 unintelligible], our, what’s it called, risk management. She loves me. She’s like, “Oh, Pam, here you go.” I always tell her she’s the buzzkill of the district. I love her to death but I don’t like all those rules. But yeah, so I always live within the rules so that no one gets in trouble, but we do try to do things that are different and exciting and…

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, and even the way you played it up to the students, I mean, being outside in the rain is not dangerous, the kids are going to do it on the way home, they probably did the rest of the week coming to school, but there’s this, you’ve created almost like this stage of like, “This is going to happen.”

Pam Keller: Yeah. It’s so exciting.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Pam Keller: We’re going to get sopping wet at school! Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Right, right. Yeah.

Pam Keller: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Wes Kriesel: That’s cool.

Pam Keller: Yeah.

Wes Kriesel: Hmm. So, it’s interesting, you talked about being conscious of the rules but then also trying to break them or find this room for kids to feel like there’s a certain freedom.

Pam Keller: Yes, to feel like you’re not always tied down, like you’re not always glued with your bottom to a chair. And I think I was that way with Richmond kindergarten. We went on at least 20 field trips every year and we had a little field trip journal. And Richmond’s located in a really cool spot, so we went over to the farmer’s market. We can walk there. There was a water place right there called [00:28:24 somebody Water] or something, so we went and did a tour of the water and we learned about the wells of the water. Honestly, we walked all the way to the fire station at Brookhurst and Valencia, which took 45 minutes, so everyone thought it was crazy but I’m like, “What? It’s closer than the main branch. What?” So, because we couldn’t afford—we did the one bus a year or the two buses a year, whatever PTA can help pay for, but after that, we didn’t have money to pay for it. So, we literally walked everywhere. We walked to Spaghetti Factory. We convinced them—Sharon and I did this—We convinced them to give us spaghetti dinners at three bucks a kid, and we walked over and they were in their little fancy clothes and we showed them how to eat nicely.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, that’s so cool.

Pam Keller: We sat in a big room and we had our spaghetti, and then we walked back. And so, we just did a lot of that, and I still do that in my classroom. We still do a lot of field trips. There are teachers that I don’t know why—sorry, teachers, if you’re listening, that don’t like field trips, but I’m always shocked by that. I would go on a field trip every week if I could. I love them. I think they learn so much and I learn a lot and you’re just outside and you’re not in the confines of the classroom. There’s so much that you can do. And we don’t just go on field trips. I mean, we take like wagons of stuff with us. When we go to arboretum in Fullerton, we take an art lesson. So, one teacher will sit by the pond and the kids are looking at the turtles, and then we’re doing a direct draw of a turtle. And then, when we go back to class, we’ll watercolor it or whatever. So, we do a lot of—we don’t just go and run around. There’s just a lot of lessons with it that are hands-on and appropriate for wherever we may be.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, that sounds really cool. Well, we are almost at our time. I can’t believe that it’s almost been a half-hour.

Pam Keller: Uh-oh.

Wes Kriesel: But, I do, I want to end with this one quote. This is from your husband, John, and I said, “What’s one word”—you look worried. Don’t be worried. One word to stand in for Pam if you had to sum Pam up in one word, and he said boundless.

Pam Keller: Ooh.

Wes Kriesel: And so, I was wondering, what do you think that means or, if you’re not sure, what do you think the importance of a boundless attitude or a balanced approach to education and teaching and learning, what do you think about that?

Pam Keller: Yeah, I think that probably just means there’s no limits. I’ll go anywhere and try anything.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, interesting.

Pam Keller: I have a kindergartener in my class who keeps asking me if I’m scared of anything. He wants me to be scared of something, so he keeps—I just said, “No, I’m very brave. I’m not scared.” But, finally, we agreed that I could be scared of a great white shark trying to eat me. So, I agreed to be scared of that. But, other than that…

Wes Kriesel: But, other than that…

Pam Keller: So, I mean, I have fear like everyone else, but I’m not afraid to try anything, and I think that’s important. I see a lot of fear in educators. They’re worried that the principal’s going to get mad at them or the parents are going to get mad or they’re worried something’s going to happen to a student or they’re worried that the superintendent’s going to get mad. You know what? We’re all people. Everyone from the guy up at the top to the person at the bottom, we’re all just people. We all go to sleep and wake up and we all started somewhere, and I don’t think anyone’s—I don’t know. I’m not scared of that. I don’t think you should be. I think everyone should be brave to do what they think is right especially if you’re a teacher. That’s your world. You should try new things. You should be, like you say, innovative and excited, because I think the kids get excited. And we follow the lead of our kids a lot. They want to do something.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, that’s interesting.

Pam Keller: So, our students are boundless as well because they want to try things. So, one of our students four years ago started, you know, he found out there were people that were hungry that didn’t have food, and so every Thanksgiving he does a food drive and it was his and he brought the box and he made the sign.

Wes Kriesel: Oh, that’s so cool.

Pam Keller: So, our students do things like that and they bring it to us and it’s really exciting, and then they do things in class. They’re funny. They don’t want to go to recess. They’ll be like, “Is writing over? Do I have to go to recess? Can I keep writing?” And I always tease them, I’m like, “You’re the strangest kids I’ve ever met. Every kid wants to go to recess.” Not us. We want to finish—“Can I take my writing to recess?” I’m like, “No! Go be a kid. Go play!”

Wes Kriesel: That’s so cool.

Pam Keller: So yeah, it’s super-funny.

Wes Kriesel: I love that you say the kids bring like an untapped amount. Every kid’s different, so they’re going to bring in whatever they’re interested in or whatever they’ve heard about or are curious about. And so, as you look at them, they’re sort of supplying the class with ideas. That’s kind of like how it sounds like you approach it.

Pam Keller: Well, so my teaching partner, Nancy, one of them—I have two teaching partners, [00:33:20 Dan] and Nancy. So, Nancy always says it’s like you’re playing a game of catch. So, the teacher throws the ball to the student. They throw the ball to the student and the student throws the ball back, and then you have to respond and you throw the ball back. And so, that’s how we do try to teach.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

Pam Keller: So, the set lesson plan or the, “I’m going to do this for sure,” we’re always erasing. It’s in pencil. Because sometimes, the kids take you on a completely different direction and it’s way better than the direction you were going to go. And you have to follow their lead because if they’re interested and they’re excited, they’re going to learn so much more than if you stick to your little plan of, “Oh, we’re just going to do this and keep it narrow.” So, boundless is a good word. Good job, honey.

Wes Kriesel: Good job. All right, well, that’s it for our time. I just want to say thank you. This has been an absolute joy and absolute pleasure because it just flew by like that.

Pam Keller: I know. That was so fast.

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, yeah. So, anyways, thank you.

Pam Keller: Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.

Wes Kriesel: Sure.

Outro: This has been the Teacher Interview Podcast. Thank you for joining us.

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