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Intro: Welcome to the Teacher Interview Podcast. I’m your host, Wes Kriesel. I work as Director of Innovation and Instructional Support in Fullerton School District, and every week we sit down and get to know a teacher better. My goal is to learn what drives and guides teachers, especially when venturing into that risky territory of trying something new. Join me. Today on the Teacher Interview Podcast, we spend time with Tracy Kim. She teaches at Robert C. Fisler School in Fullerton.

 

Wes Kriesel: Tracy, welcome.

Tracy Kim: Thank you.

 

Wes Kriesel: So, we’re so glad you’re here. We’re going to start with just a general question about like, how did you get into teaching? What was that like for you?

 

Tracy Kim: Well, all my life, I have to say since I’ve been in like junior high, I’ve been teaching like Bible study classes or VBS and just helping out at church, or I’m just always interested in children. And so, I knew I loved kids and I did my undergraduate study at UCLA, and my parents, being typical Asian parents, wanted me to obviously go into the medical field. So, I was a biology major and I thought, “I love kids. I’ll be a pediatrician.”

 

Wes Kriesel: Sure, yeah.

 

Tracy Kim: And then, I took a couple of biology classes, and then I got into organic chemistry and I hated it. I could barely pass.

 

Wes Kriesel: You’re here.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah, and I realized, “Okay, this is definitely not the field for me.” And so, I decided, “Okay, this is not my track,” and I became a psychology major and continued working all throughout college. I did all my classes late in the afternoon so that in the morning I could go and be a TA in a preschool.

 

Wes Kriesel: Oh, really?

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah, and then I realized, “You know, this is just what I love. This is really what I love,” but I could kind of sense that my parents weren’t necessarily wanting me to go into teaching, thinking it would be a difficult career. And then, I graduated, and then I took a year off and I decided I need to find out what it is that I want to do. So, I was helping at schools, being a TA, and then with my psychology degree I was counseling abused girls and abused children, and so just beginning. And so, I realized, as much as I love children, teaching was always happy, fun, loving, this sort of feel, and then working with counseling, it was hard on me. Emotionally, it was hard on me. So, I realized, “You know what? Regardless of what my parents want or don’t want, this is what I want to do.” So, I went back and got my master’s degree and I haven’t looked back since. I know exactly this is where I’m supposed to be.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. Was there a moment of truth where you had to tell them or anything like that that you remember from that? Or, how did you know, how did you tell them? Any significant moments from that kind of turning point?

 

Tracy Kim: Well, it was definitely after, I mean, I already knew that I wanted to teach but it was struggling with trying to keep my parents happy and pleasing them, and then realizing when I took that year off, “This is my career, this is my job, this is my life and my future,” and I had no doubts that this is the love that I had for it. So, I realized, “Yeah, Mom, Dad…” And then, when you have such conviction in what you want, no one’s going to get in the way. So, they were like, “You know what? If that’s what you want, then go for it.”

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, it’s like you were owning that passion that was already there.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah, finally kind of just relenting to that burning that I had.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, how was it getting into teaching? Where did you start your career?

 

Tracy Kim: So, I finished my master’s degree, and then I took a year off and went to Korea and actually taught English there for a year, just to get a different experience and do a little traveling and do something totally different before I started working. And then, so that experience, I was teaching college students and adults, so different.

 

Wes Kriesel: Okay.

 

Tracy Kim: And then, came back here and the school that I was a TA at, I did actually a phone interview while I was in Korea and they asked me to come back and teach.

 

Wes Kriesel: Oh, wow.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah, because I worked with some of the teachers there.

 

Wes Kriesel: That’s great.

 

Tracy Kim: Mm-hmm. And then when I came back, I had a job lined up waiting at that time, so I went back to the school that I loved teaching at or being a TA at and I was hired there, and that’s kind of how it started.

 

Wes Kriesel: That’s great.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah.

 

Wes Kriesel: Is there something from that teaching experience in Korea that you can reflect on being relevant to teaching here or any lessons learned in that different context?

 

Tracy Kim: Well, it kind of goes along with the whole, you know, finally figuring out to have my own wings, and living in Korea—I’ve always lived very close to my parents and always been home, and being in Korea, living there for a year without anyone there, no friends, some family but not living with the family, it really helped me to realize just to grow up, to be an adult, make my own decisions, and that I truly do love teaching. And it’s not just the kids that I love teaching, it’s just teaching in general, just being able to teach someone something that they wanted to learn. And in the sense of adults, I mean, obviously, they were there to learn English and that I would be able to do that and entertain and still teach and kind of make a difference even in adults’ lives. But, I was definitely in the right profession.

 

Wes Kriesel: That’s great. I was thinking about that phrase about kind of growing up and kind of being your own person.

 

Tracy Kim: Mm-hmm.

 

Wes Kriesel: Has that in any way, have you seen that repeat like in your teaching career where like sometimes we have colleagues and we realize, “Well, the way they want to do things or the things they’re interested in pursuing, I’m actually a different type of teacher?”

 

Tracy Kim: Mm-hmm.

 

Wes Kriesel: Or, have you ever seen that kind of being your own person once you were back here during your teaching career? Any sort of moments where you realized like, “Oh, I actually have to stand up for my own view.”

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely, I think in any profession you’re going to experience that. And so, I think, strangely enough, it’s easier for me to stand up for myself when I’m talking to others than it is in front of my parents, because you don’t want to disappoint when it comes to your parents. And then, when it comes to your colleagues, if you really have a reason—I don’t just argue for the sake of arguing. I actually have valid reasons why I think, “Oh, I think this would work better.” But, yeah, I mean…

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. That’s actually a great segue into one of the quotes. I did a little bit of pre-interview work and I talked to Peter, who is your husband.

 

Tracy Kim: Mm-hmm. My husband.

 

Wes Kriesel: I talked to Julienne, who is your principal.

 

Tracy Kim: My principal.

 

Wes Kriesel: And Kim Bass, your coworker.

 

Tracy Kim: Mm-hmm, which is my coworker. Yeah.

 

Wes Kriesel: So, I wanted to the bring out, you talked about you don’t just argue for the sake of argument, but one of those was a moment where you were part—I think it was Kim Bass. She said you were on the third-grade PLC and she said the principal had sort of selected the PLC to talk to the whole staff, and she describes it as two extroverts and you.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah.

 

Wes Kriesel: And so, she wrote, “The two extroverts were thrilled to share, and Tracy was then caught up in the process.” This is what she wrote next: “When Tracy speaks though, people listen.” What do you think about that?

 

Tracy Kim: I mean, it’s very flattering. I think that that kind of goes along with the fact that because I do work with two extroverts, you know, a lot of times I didn’t have to be in the forefront. I didn’t have to. If I was with two people that were more introverted than I was, then I would feel like I needed to step up. But, because I worked with two extroverts, I thought, “They want to talk, so I’m just going to…” And then, I don’t want to bombard whoever we’re talking to with so much that they’re overwhelmed, so I just let them share and speak and then, if need be, I would speak up. And so, I think when you hear the usual people talking and then someone who usually doesn’t talk says something, everyone turns, and maybe that’s why.

 

Wes Kriesel: She actually went on to elaborate. So, it was interesting to hear your take on it because she did share that as well, is like you rarely speak in front of a group, but then, when you do, people listen. But, she actually adds that you’re real, quote-unquote real, and teachers relate to your experiences because you’re genuinely honest. And then, that was actually the word that Julienne shared when I said, “Tell me any bonus feedback.” She said, “Tracy is one of the most real people I know.” So, tell me about that honesty and like, do you see that in yourself or…?

 

Tracy Kim: I do.

 

Wes Kriesel: Okay.

 

Tracy Kim: I do see that and it can be to a fault sometimes.

 

Wes Kriesel: Okay. Tell me, tell me.

 

Tracy Kim: But, I think that I don’t like just fluff talk and I just want to hear it like it is. I don’t want people to feel like they have to sugarcoat things for me. Just tell me and I’ll do the same for you, in any experience, whether it be— I mean, I have friends who are pregnant, they’re going to go through childbirth or raising a kid, and I’ll tell it, the good and the bad, just to be prepared so that when you go through it, you don’t go through the dark times by yourself thinking you’re the only one going through that. So, with teaching as well, if there’s a new teacher on staff or a new person, I like to just be able to say, “Hey, this is what might happen and it could go this way, but no, we did the same thing and it went through that, but we’re here to support each other.” Or, even with the coding, it’s so new and there’s a lot of pushback because people are afraid to try something that they have not been trained in, they don’t know, or even if they do receive training they don’t feel like experts. And so, my huge thing is always you’re never going to be able to know as much that you think you need to know to teach, so just teach it, and then just follow along with them and just learn it together. And I think when people come to visit and watch me teach coding, I say, “This is not always like this. It’s not always perfectly planned out. Sometimes we have all these glitches and sometimes kids ask me questions I have no idea, and it’s okay. We’re figuring it out together, and I actually tell the kids ahead of time, too. I don’t try to act like I know everything anymore. That’s definitely something I’ve learned in the last five years, or even 10 years: Kids like to see you make mistakes and it makes them feel like you’re human. You’re not this statue that talks up in the front and they can never make mistakes.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. So, I’ve heard you say something, it’s interesting, the way you describe yourself in front of students was the exact same way you describe yourself in front of adult visitors, like, “I tell them up front it’s not always perfect.” So, I think that’s part of that being real.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah. I think so, yeah.

 

Wes Kriesel: But, that’s interesting, beyond that you also said the students like to see you make mistakes and you’re aware of that, and so you allow it to happen or even set up, you kind of know what’s going to happen.

 

Tracy Kim: Right, right.

 

Wes Kriesel: And so, you’re creating a situation where you’re going to be vulnerable that you know they like that and that’s going to draw them into learning.

 

Tracy Kim: Mm-hmm.

 

Wes Kriesel: So, how do you see that playing out with colleagues, like, yeah, you can tell them it’s not always perfect, but how do you model making mistakes or being vulnerable with the staff? Any examples that come to mind with that?

 

Tracy Kim: I think that we as teachers, and I guess just perfectionists and just people in general, we always want to show our best foot forward. I mean, if you see Instagram, Facebook, nobody posts pictures of them…

 

Wes Kriesel: “Look at all my failures.”

 

Tracy Kim: Yes, exactly, and actually, people find it refreshing to see that sometimes, you know, that, “Oh, that’s a real picture.” And I think that with your colleagues, when you’re able to show them your failures as well as your successes, then they feel that you are someone that they can relate to and that we can work on it together.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. Do you have an example of that? I mean, how do you show an example of your failure to your colleagues? Usually, they’re not around.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah, well, I’ve been working with my colleagues for a long time, especially like Kim. I’ve been working with her for a long time. We’re not at the same grade level anymore, but we did work together for a long time. And she also models that type of behavior where, “my life’s not perfect, my classroom’s not perfect, but just try it anyways and just do it. I don’t know everything but let’s try it,” and I’ve learned a lot from just that alone, just watching her in her technology. She just says, “Let’s just go for it,” and that’s kind of the message that I want to send to the next wave of people who are reluctant to try. Just try it.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, just try it.

 

Tracy Kim: Just go for it. You don’t have to know all of it. And let your kids know, “Hey, this isn’t my first year teaching this and it’s going to be, you know, I’m not going to know all the answers, but you know what? I bet you guys are going to figure out so much more than I am and you’re going to teach me,” and they get excited about that. They get pumped up knowing that they might be in the front, teaching the lesson, or they might be able to share something that the teacher didn’t know. And I think that in and of itself is motivating because we’re learning together as opposed to just me teaching and they’re learning.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, absolutely.

 

Tracy Kim: And so, I think amongst our, when you ask me about with my colleagues, I’m fortunate enough to work with colleagues that don’t always feel like everything needs to be perfect, and so we don’t feel the need to always show only our best foot forward. We work on it together.

 

Wes Kriesel: That’s great.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah.

 

Wes Kriesel: So, I have an example I think might relate to that. I don’t know. But, when I asked Julienne about a moment that she thought of or that came to mind for her when I say, my phrase was like, “When Tracy is being uniquely Tracy as only she can be,” so she brought up the dancing granny. What is that?

 

Tracy Kim: So, we have a staff talent show every year or a variety show; we don’t necessarily have to have talent.

 

Wes Kriesel: Well put.

 

Tracy Kim: And so, we just do it to entertain families and show kids your fun side, and it’s a fundraiser for the school. And so, we came up with this—it’s not even come up. It’s just this, we ad-libbed. We came up with this thing where the grannies are in a senior home and we act very grannyish and we’re old, and then when the senior center leader leaves the room, we start getting down to all this music. And so, we’re like playing with the radio station and every time some particular song comes on, it gets one or two grandmas up and they’re like, “This is my song. This is my jam,” and we start dancing. And so, I think everyone kind of tends to see me as always just the same, like I don’t—if you get to know me, you’ll kind of know that I’m quirky and crazy, but when I’m a teacher I’m always in teacher mode.

 

Wes Kriesel: Teacher mode.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah, teacher mode.

 

Wes Kriesel: I think we identify with that phrase, yeah.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah. Teacher mode, outside of my classroom, but in my classroom, my kids can’t see my quirky, crazy side. And then, close friends get to see that side of me, but the rest of the just general public sees me as kind of always in teacher mode. And then, for the teacher talent show, I just got down.

 

Wes Kriesel: “I just got down.”

 

Tracy Kim: And everyone was like, “Oh my gosh,” taken aback.

 

Wes Kriesel: But, that’s a great moment where you’re being real and being vulnerable and not having to maintain teacher mode.

 

Tracy Kim: Right.

 

Wes Kriesel: And it’s interesting it was a fundraiser. You had a reason behind it. You were doing it for the community?

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah, yeah.

 

Wes Kriesel: So, it’s like an interesting way to give back because people are seeing a special side of you. That’s pretty special.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, I was like, “I have to ask about that.”

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah. It’s fun. It was really fun.

 

Wes Kriesel: I do have to ask about you mentioned being real and you said, “If I had somebody I knew and they were going to have a child, I would tell them kind of how it’s going to be and including like how it might be like in a hard way.”

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah.

 

Wes Kriesel: So, I asked the question, “Share moment when Tracy is being uniquely Tracy.” So Peter, your husband, wrote, “The day before our son was born,” you called them and said you think you’re going into labor.

 

Tracy Kim: Mm-hmm.

 

Wes Kriesel: Do you remember this story? So, he said it was his first time experiencing the events leading up to childbirth, and so he thought it was an emergency. Do you know what he’s going to say next? Because he wrote like a novel.

 

Tracy Kim: I do. I do know what he’s going to say.

 

Wes Kriesel: Can you see this? He wrote all this.

 

Tracy Kim: And I bet you he did that on his iPhone.

 

Wes Kriesel: Why do you think he brought that up as a moment where you’re being uniquely you?

 

Tracy Kim: He always talks about how, because when that happened, he was obviously flipping out, and I said, “You don’t need to come now. I’m just going to drive myself to the hospital.”

 

Wes Kriesel: He did write that.

 

Tracy Kim: Yeah. And he’s like, “You can’t drive yourself to the hospital,” because of what he sees on TV all the time.

 

Wes Kriesel: Right.

 

Tracy Kim: And I said, “No, this is going to be hours, hours and hours if not half a day or full day. I’m fine and I’m going to drive myself to the hospital.” So, I think he still thinks that that’s kind of crazy even though he knew it took a long time. But, it kind of describes my personality. I don’t want to impose. I don’t want to ask people to do things for me. “I got it. I’ll drive myself. I’m fine. My arms and my legs work.”

 

Wes Kriesel: And so, part of what he kind of summarizes that story with was that he says, “She was my hero that day, so calm, confident and determined.” Is that how you see yourself?

 

Tracy Kim: I try to be. I strive to be, yes. I strive to be. I try to, I mean, in terms of calm, I think that comes from I always think before I react, and so it comes off as someone who’s just always like calm but things are going on in my mind, but I just think, “Let’s just wait and see, give it a minute before we react.” And I think that’s why people may think that I’m…but I’m sure I’m crazy inside my head, too.

 

Wes Kriesel: That’s great. Well, we’re getting close to the end. One question that has occurred to me, we hired a lot of new teachers this year, like 50 or more than 50, I was wondering like, what do you think they should remember, like the new teacher, somebody just starting out on their teaching journey? Any things you think they might be likely to overlook or some things you think that are particularly meaningful for somebody that’s just starting out?

 

Tracy Kim: I actually have a new team member on my team that’s very new, and so I think if I were to just kind of imagine speaking to her I would want to say, “You know, it’s overwhelming at first especially when you come into this era of teaching, this time period where we have Common Core, testing, all of these things that everyone has to do, but on top of that, if you come into a school that’s very much pushing computer programming and wanting you to keep up with the latest and the greatest, I think that what I would say is baby steps. Huge. Because with Writers Workshop, Readers Workshop, there are so many things and, you know, the teachers who have been doing it for a long time, we have a handle on certain things and we are trying to take new things on, and as a new teacher, I know you’re going to want to do everything, but we can’t do everything well. So, start with one thing and one thing that maybe you love, that you’re most passionate about, your subject or whatever it may be, and put all of your energy into building that subject or area first, and then the next year building on another area, instead of trying to be good at everything. And, that we’re not expecting you to be good at everything the first day, the first year. Just kind of taking your time, but being open to all avenues because you actually don’t even know, you may not know, what you have a newfound love for.” I mean, I can say that because even with all this coding and the computer programming, I never would imagine that after, you know, for teaching this long that this would have been something that I would have enjoyed and begun to enjoy. But, I kind of feel like if I can do it, anyone can do it. Anyone can start it, get a taste of it, and then you realize, “Wow, I actually do like this stuff. This is pretty cool.” And just being open to that, because you don’t know where it is that you’re going to find that passion.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah. I love that. We’re kind of at time, but I did want to end with one word. So, one of the questions I asked was, “If you had one word to represent Tracy, what would it be?” So, Kim Bass said her word for you is unexpected. What do you think that means?

 

Tracy Kim: I think that she thinks she knows my personality. She knows I don’t like to speak in front of others, I don’t like to draw attention to myself, but I’m doing things that she doesn’t necessarily expect me to do and that she’s pleasantly surprised. It may be something along the lines of even like the granny dancing sort of thing. I put my heart and soul into my dance and you would never expect that I would do something like that.

 

Wes Kriesel: You brought it.

 

Tracy Kim: So, something along the lines. Yeah, just when I do try to do something, I try to go for it.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah.

 

Tracy Kim: And just make the best of it, even though I’m not comfortable in it. Just try.

 

Wes Kriesel: You know, that’s interesting that that resonates with the word that your husband chose, which was gritty. It’s just like grit, like not giving up, just throw it all in and go for it.

 

Tracy Kim: Mm-hmm.

 

Wes Kriesel: Yeah, Kim Bass also, she mentioned creativity, artistic and a sense of humor, which we talked about with the dancing, and just bold, brave steps to innovation.

Tracy Kim: Very kind.

Wes Kriesel: Well, this has been great. I thank you and we appreciate your time.

Tracy Kim: Thank you. Yes, thank you for having me.

Outro: This has been the Teacher Interview Podcast. Thank you for joining us.

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